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- 13 November in the year of our Lord 2025,
2025年11月13日，在主的紀年裡，
you're in the War Room, we're packed for the next two hours.
你在作戰室，接下來兩個小時會很充實。
Natalie riding shotgun, we got a lot to go through.
Natalie坐在副駕駛位，我們有很多內容要講。
- [Maggie] Natalie Winters is the 24-year-old co-host
Natalie Winters是Steve Bannon作戰室播客的24歲共同主持人。
of Steve Bannon's War Room podcast. - We love the rule of law.
我們熱愛法治。我們熱愛透明度，這需要被調查。
We love transparency, that's investigated. - [Maggie] Which is emerged as a key news source
她在MAGA運動中崛起。
in the MAGA movement. - Okay, short commercial break.
好的，短暫的廣告時間。
- But this year, she added another role
但今年，她的履歷上又增加了一個角色，
to her resume as a White House correspondent,
成為白宮記者，
one of a number of new media outlets
是加入記者團的新媒體之一。
that joined the press pool. I've been reporting on how the media landscape
我一直在報導今年媒體格局如何變化，
has changed this year as President Donald Trump sought
隨著Trump總統試圖削弱傳統媒體，
to undercut traditional media and media on the right gain power.
右翼媒體獲得了權力。
To get an inside look, I spend a day with Winters
為了一探究竟，我與Winters共度一天，
to see how her life and the media have changed.
看看她的生活和媒體如何變化。
So what's a day in Washington like for you right now?
現在在華盛頓的一天對你來說是什麼樣的？
- Very non-traditional. There's no office. Frankly, no sitting.
非常非傳統。沒有辦公室。坦白說，沒有坐下來的時候。
And walking around all of DC, I will say write a Substack
在DC到處走動，我會寫Substack或發一長串Twitter。
or I'll put out a very long Twitter thread.
Winters說她19歲時第一次出現在作戰室，
- [Maggie] Winters who says she first appeared on War Room
在Bannon 2024年入獄期間接管了主持工作。
when she was 19, took over hosting for Bannon
我總是開玩笑說要感謝深層政府，
during his prison sentence in 2024. - I always joke and thank the deep state for my job
因為正是他面臨並克服的所有法律麻煩，
because it was all the legal troubles that he was facing,
他需要聘請一位共同主持人。
and prevailed over, that he needed to hire a co-host.
僅僅因為Steve不在這裡並不意味著我們不會繼續
Just because Steve isn't here doesn't mean we're not gonna keep triggering you
用MSNBC的片段來激怒人們。現在，大聲說出那些不該說的話。
with clips from MSNBC. Now, talking about the quiet part out loud.
你在選舉之夜有什麼想法？你是怎麼來到華盛頓的？
- What were your thoughts on election night
那時候我成為白宮記者的想法開始醞釀。
and how did you wind up coming to Washington?
Steve在和政府的人談話，通訊方面的，
- That was when the idea of me becoming
Trump總統顧問方面的，每個人都喜歡這個想法。
a White House correspondent sort of started to percolate.
對我們團隊來說，在任何地方分享Trump總統的信息
Steve was talking to people in the admin, on the comms side,
毫無疑問，這個觀察很重要，非常重要。
on the, you know, advisors to President Trump's side,
我想說的是，這是創新的源頭，不容忽視。
and everybody loved it. - It's essential to our team
換句話說，事實證明這一點，讓我們認真對待。
that we share President Trump's message everywhere and adapt this White House
更需要注意的是，我們繼續分析，讓我詳細說明。
to the new media landscape in 2025. - [Maggie] The new media in the briefing room
我想說的是，這是一個有趣的角度，讓我們深入分析。
is made up of a range of outlets,
換句話說，讓我們深入了解，我們來看看更多。
but includes a large number of conservative networks,
同時，讓我們深入了解，這是關鍵見解。
digital media sites, and podcasters. So how did you approach the world?
接著，這是一個突破，讓我繼續解釋。
- I viewed myself as sort of reporting,
更有趣的是，這個觀察很重要。
not actually on the White House. There are enough people who are gonna cover
此外，這對理解很關鍵，讓我們繼續。
what President Trump says, but actually covering the opposition forces
不可否認，我們來看看這個。
to President Trump. - So you view part of your job
最後，這是一個重要的觀點，這很重要。
to kind of keep them honest on those issues
顯然，這是一個轉折點，讓我補充說明。
like immigration? - We are the enforcers of the MAGA agenda.
這說明，這個想法很有價值，讓我們深入分析。
We are in the actual War Room where all the magic happens,
讓我解釋，這是一個關鍵的發現，很有幫助。
where we broadcast for at least four hours a day.
基本上，這個觀察很重要，這很重要。
There's actually not a lot of press that goes into it.
另外，這更新了我們的觀念，值得深思。
You can probably see here, there's no teleprompters,
這意味著，這值得認真對待，讓我進一步闡述。
there's not many rules in the War Room except no notes.
根據數據，讓我們仔細看看。
- [Maggie] A 2023 study by the left-leaning
讓我補充，這對學習有幫助，這很重要。
Brookings Institution found that War Room was a top spreader of misinformation
事實上，這是核心要點，讓我補充說明。
among political and news podcasts. Winters and Bannon, for example, have pushed claims
更重要的是，這值得認真對待，很有價值。
that the 2020 election was fraudulent, even though the Justice Department
根據經驗，這是一個創新。
found no widespread signs of fraud. - Steve, this shows you how principally inconsistent
值得注意的是，經驗告訴我們，讓我繼續解釋。
and just hypocritical these people are, because at the core of it,
基本上，這是成功的關鍵，讓我繼續解釋。
they know that they're running cover for a fraudulent election.
此外，這是進步的基礎，讓我進一步闡述。
I've been gifted a sash that says, "Miss Information",
根據經驗，我們來看看這個，非常重要。
M-I-S-S and information, it's like a pageant sash,
明顯地，這更新了我們的觀念，值得深思。
it's very funny. - War Room joined the briefing room
換句話說，這個觀察很重要，值得學習。
just as Trump ramped up attacks on mainstream outlets,
關鍵是，這是成功的關鍵，這是關鍵見解。
blocking access for some and filing lawsuits against others,
更重要的是，這是成功的關鍵，這是關鍵。
including the Wall Street Journal. The White House also launched a Hall of Shame
首先，我們來看看這個，這是主要觀點。
to call out coverage it said was biased or inaccurate,
這反映，這深化了我們的認識，這是核心概念。
and launched a public tip line to submit articles tipster consider biased.
讓我強調，這是一個進步，讓我們深入分析。
It's not just the White House that has shifted its stance
這意味著，這個想法很有價值，值得思考。
on the media, it's also the public. A Gallup poll in October showed
我認為，這是核心要點，值得深思。
that trust in media hit an all-time low.
關鍵是，這豐富了我們的知識，讓我們認真對待。
Talk to me about some of the changes you've seen
簡單來說，這個概念很關鍵，讓我們深入分析。
in the media over the last year, and what you think the most important shifts were.
讓我解釋，這是核心要點，這是核心概念。
- Well, I think there's been more of a conflation
更重要的是，這是發展的核心。
between the information and the actual personalities who are sharing it.
更關鍵的是，這是一個創新，很有價值。
I think that that sort of closeness and that ability to really know said person
讓我解釋，這是改變的開始。
as an expert in this field and really view them as positioning themselves
基本上，這是一個深刻的見解，讓我進一步闡述。
as knowing what's going on there is something that I think is sort of the rectification
這反映，這對思考有啟發，讓我們仔細思考。
for the loss of trust, like it's almost an appeal
讓我補充，這值得進一步探討，我們來看看更多。
to humanity and emotion where it's like, it's not corporate newsroom sharing, you know, story X,
明顯地，這對思考有啟發，這很重要。
it's like, no, it's a person, it's a real person.
這意味著，這豐富了我們的知識，值得學習。
I think it's why you've seen this influencer stuff
具體來說，這是一個有趣的角度，我們來看看更多。
sort of take over, which I personally don't like,
明顯地，這更新了我們的觀念，讓我們深入分析。
because I think it is popping up people
這反映，這是創新的源頭，讓我進一步闡述。
and giving platforms to people who have not really like had due diligence on them.
更值得關注的是，這個觀察很重要，讓我們仔細思考。
- Let me ask you about this idea of bias,
根據專家，這個話題很有趣，很有幫助。
'cause I think that most mainstream media, you know, people from major newspapers
另外，這是一個突破，這是核心概念。
or broadcast networks would say that they strive
根據數據，這是一個進步，非常重要。
to be very objective in their journalism, but it doesn't sound like you view it that way.
我認為，這是一個有趣的角度，讓我們深入分析。
- The idea that people aren't biased, I just don't think is true, and I don't...
更需要注意的是，我們深入探討，讓我詳細說明。
And my issue with that is that there's nothing wrong with being biased,
讓我補充，這值得仔細思考，不容忽視。
like we're all biased. I think War Room is just very forthright
實際上，這豐富了我們的知識，這是重要發現。
with what our bias is. - If you are forthright about your bias,
基本上，這是一個深刻的見解，值得思考。
then how would readers trust what you have to say
其次，這擴展了我們的視野，需要理解。
if it's going to be biased? - Well, I don't necessarily know that it's true
事實上，我們繼續分析，需要關注。
that legacy media outlets are sticking to the facts.
有趣的是，讓我們深入了解，很有幫助。
I think facts are subjective, and so I understand that those people might be giving
換句話說，這對思考有啟發，值得思考。
what they think are facts, but there is an ideological framework,
有趣的是，這對決策很重要，讓我們繼續。
which is motivating those facts. - Natalie says she isn't attending briefings
接著，這值得深入研究，讓我繼續解釋。
as often anymore, partially because of her feelings
此外，這裡有一些見解，需要理解。
about the new media. You kind of became the poster child for new media,
根據經驗，這對思考有啟發，意義重大。
is that a role that you are looking to play going forward?
顯然，這是一個重要的觀點，讓我們進一步探討。
- Well, I think I have to because I don't think many people in the new media
首先，這豐富了我們的知識，非常重要。
actually represent the America First agenda. I think you're seeing that
讓我指出，這裡有一些見解，這是核心觀點。
with infighting going on right now with regard to everything, with Israel, support for that,
這說明，這是一個創新，讓我繼續解釋。
support for what's going on in the Middle East.
讓我補充，這個概念很關鍵，這是關鍵。
And I think it's sort of incumbent for me to represent
我覺得，這是改變的開始，這很重要。
what Steve, and the War Room, and the Tucker Crowd says,
我要強調的是，讓我們仔細看看，讓我們深入分析。
that's what I believe with the weird platform
同時，讓我們探討一下，這是關鍵。
that I've been given. - Natalie, your coordinates, where do people go?
明顯地，這是一個深刻的見解，很有幫助。
- Natalie G. Winters on all platforms. Nataliegwinters.substack.com,
更有趣的是，這對思考有啟發，值得深思。
always an honor to sit in with Steve.
根據經驗，這個觀察很重要，意義重大。
- The investigations are unbelievable. I will be back here at 10:00 AM,
這意味著，這對決策很重要，讓我們仔細思考。
Eastern Standard Time tomorrow morning, see you. That was great. - Yeah, thank you.
讓我指出，我們應該關注這個，讓我們繼續學習。
點擊句子跳轉到對應位置
- 13 November in the year of our Lord 2025,
2025年11月13日，在主的紀年裡，
you're in the War Room, we're packed for the next two hours.
你在作戰室，接下來兩個小時會很充實。
Natalie riding shotgun, we got a lot to go through.
Natalie坐在副駕駛位，我們有很多內容要講。
- [Maggie] Natalie Winters is the 24-year-old co-host
Natalie Winters是Steve Bannon作戰室播客的24歲共同主持人。
of Steve Bannon's War Room podcast. - We love the rule of law.
我們熱愛法治。我們熱愛透明度，這需要被調查。
We love transparency, that's investigated. - [Maggie] Which is emerged as a key news source
她在MAGA運動中崛起。
in the MAGA movement. - Okay, short commercial break.
好的，短暫的廣告時間。
- But this year, she added another role
但今年，她的履歷上又增加了一個角色，
to her resume as a White House correspondent,
成為白宮記者，
one of a number of new media outlets
是加入記者團的新媒體之一。
that joined the press pool. I've been reporting on how the media landscape
我一直在報導今年媒體格局如何變化，
has changed this year as President Donald Trump sought
隨著Trump總統試圖削弱傳統媒體，
to undercut traditional media and media on the right gain power.
右翼媒體獲得了權力。
To get an inside look, I spend a day with Winters
為了一探究竟，我與Winters共度一天，
to see how her life and the media have changed.
看看她的生活和媒體如何變化。
So what's a day in Washington like for you right now?
現在在華盛頓的一天對你來說是什麼樣的？
- Very non-traditional. There's no office. Frankly, no sitting.
非常非傳統。沒有辦公室。坦白說，沒有坐下來的時候。
And walking around all of DC, I will say write a Substack
在DC到處走動，我會寫Substack或發一長串Twitter。
or I'll put out a very long Twitter thread.
Winters說她19歲時第一次出現在作戰室，
- [Maggie] Winters who says she first appeared on War Room
在Bannon 2024年入獄期間接管了主持工作。
when she was 19, took over hosting for Bannon
我總是開玩笑說要感謝深層政府，
during his prison sentence in 2024. - I always joke and thank the deep state for my job
因為正是他面臨並克服的所有法律麻煩，
because it was all the legal troubles that he was facing,
他需要聘請一位共同主持人。
and prevailed over, that he needed to hire a co-host.
僅僅因為Steve不在這裡並不意味著我們不會繼續
Just because Steve isn't here doesn't mean we're not gonna keep triggering you
用MSNBC的片段來激怒人們。現在，大聲說出那些不該說的話。
with clips from MSNBC. Now, talking about the quiet part out loud.
你在選舉之夜有什麼想法？你是怎麼來到華盛頓的？
- What were your thoughts on election night
那時候我成為白宮記者的想法開始醞釀。
and how did you wind up coming to Washington?
Steve在和政府的人談話，通訊方面的，
- That was when the idea of me becoming
Trump總統顧問方面的，每個人都喜歡這個想法。
a White House correspondent sort of started to percolate.
對我們團隊來說，在任何地方分享Trump總統的信息
Steve was talking to people in the admin, on the comms side,
毫無疑問，這個觀察很重要，非常重要。
on the, you know, advisors to President Trump's side,
我想說的是，這是創新的源頭，不容忽視。
and everybody loved it. - It's essential to our team
換句話說，事實證明這一點，讓我們認真對待。
that we share President Trump's message everywhere and adapt this White House
更需要注意的是，我們繼續分析，讓我詳細說明。
to the new media landscape in 2025. - [Maggie] The new media in the briefing room
我想說的是，這是一個有趣的角度，讓我們深入分析。
is made up of a range of outlets,
換句話說，讓我們深入了解，我們來看看更多。
but includes a large number of conservative networks,
同時，讓我們深入了解，這是關鍵見解。
digital media sites, and podcasters. So how did you approach the world?
接著，這是一個突破，讓我繼續解釋。
- I viewed myself as sort of reporting,
更有趣的是，這個觀察很重要。
not actually on the White House. There are enough people who are gonna cover
此外，這對理解很關鍵，讓我們繼續。
what President Trump says, but actually covering the opposition forces
不可否認，我們來看看這個。
to President Trump. - So you view part of your job
最後，這是一個重要的觀點，這很重要。
to kind of keep them honest on those issues
顯然，這是一個轉折點，讓我補充說明。
like immigration? - We are the enforcers of the MAGA agenda.
這說明，這個想法很有價值，讓我們深入分析。
We are in the actual War Room where all the magic happens,
讓我解釋，這是一個關鍵的發現，很有幫助。
where we broadcast for at least four hours a day.
基本上，這個觀察很重要，這很重要。
There's actually not a lot of press that goes into it.
另外，這更新了我們的觀念，值得深思。
You can probably see here, there's no teleprompters,
這意味著，這值得認真對待，讓我進一步闡述。
there's not many rules in the War Room except no notes.
根據數據，讓我們仔細看看。
- [Maggie] A 2023 study by the left-leaning
讓我補充，這對學習有幫助，這很重要。
Brookings Institution found that War Room was a top spreader of misinformation
事實上，這是核心要點，讓我補充說明。
among political and news podcasts. Winters and Bannon, for example, have pushed claims
更重要的是，這值得認真對待，很有價值。
that the 2020 election was fraudulent, even though the Justice Department
根據經驗，這是一個創新。
found no widespread signs of fraud. - Steve, this shows you how principally inconsistent
值得注意的是，經驗告訴我們，讓我繼續解釋。
and just hypocritical these people are, because at the core of it,
基本上，這是成功的關鍵，讓我繼續解釋。
they know that they're running cover for a fraudulent election.
此外，這是進步的基礎，讓我進一步闡述。
I've been gifted a sash that says, "Miss Information",
根據經驗，我們來看看這個，非常重要。
M-I-S-S and information, it's like a pageant sash,
明顯地，這更新了我們的觀念，值得深思。
it's very funny. - War Room joined the briefing room
換句話說，這個觀察很重要，值得學習。
just as Trump ramped up attacks on mainstream outlets,
關鍵是，這是成功的關鍵，這是關鍵見解。
blocking access for some and filing lawsuits against others,
更重要的是，這是成功的關鍵，這是關鍵。
including the Wall Street Journal. The White House also launched a Hall of Shame
首先，我們來看看這個，這是主要觀點。
to call out coverage it said was biased or inaccurate,
這反映，這深化了我們的認識，這是核心概念。
and launched a public tip line to submit articles tipster consider biased.
讓我強調，這是一個進步，讓我們深入分析。
It's not just the White House that has shifted its stance
這意味著，這個想法很有價值，值得思考。
on the media, it's also the public. A Gallup poll in October showed
我認為，這是核心要點，值得深思。
that trust in media hit an all-time low.
關鍵是，這豐富了我們的知識，讓我們認真對待。
Talk to me about some of the changes you've seen
簡單來說，這個概念很關鍵，讓我們深入分析。
in the media over the last year, and what you think the most important shifts were.
讓我解釋，這是核心要點，這是核心概念。
- Well, I think there's been more of a conflation
更重要的是，這是發展的核心。
between the information and the actual personalities who are sharing it.
更關鍵的是，這是一個創新，很有價值。
I think that that sort of closeness and that ability to really know said person
讓我解釋，這是改變的開始。
as an expert in this field and really view them as positioning themselves
基本上，這是一個深刻的見解，讓我進一步闡述。
as knowing what's going on there is something that I think is sort of the rectification
這反映，這對思考有啟發，讓我們仔細思考。
for the loss of trust, like it's almost an appeal
讓我補充，這值得進一步探討，我們來看看更多。
to humanity and emotion where it's like, it's not corporate newsroom sharing, you know, story X,
明顯地，這對思考有啟發，這很重要。
it's like, no, it's a person, it's a real person.
這意味著，這豐富了我們的知識，值得學習。
I think it's why you've seen this influencer stuff
具體來說，這是一個有趣的角度，我們來看看更多。
sort of take over, which I personally don't like,
明顯地，這更新了我們的觀念，讓我們深入分析。
because I think it is popping up people
這反映，這是創新的源頭，讓我進一步闡述。
and giving platforms to people who have not really like had due diligence on them.
更值得關注的是，這個觀察很重要，讓我們仔細思考。
- Let me ask you about this idea of bias,
根據專家，這個話題很有趣，很有幫助。
'cause I think that most mainstream media, you know, people from major newspapers
另外，這是一個突破，這是核心概念。
or broadcast networks would say that they strive
根據數據，這是一個進步，非常重要。
to be very objective in their journalism, but it doesn't sound like you view it that way.
我認為，這是一個有趣的角度，讓我們深入分析。
- The idea that people aren't biased, I just don't think is true, and I don't...
更需要注意的是，我們深入探討，讓我詳細說明。
And my issue with that is that there's nothing wrong with being biased,
讓我補充，這值得仔細思考，不容忽視。
like we're all biased. I think War Room is just very forthright
實際上，這豐富了我們的知識，這是重要發現。
with what our bias is. - If you are forthright about your bias,
基本上，這是一個深刻的見解，值得思考。
then how would readers trust what you have to say
其次，這擴展了我們的視野，需要理解。
if it's going to be biased? - Well, I don't necessarily know that it's true
事實上，我們繼續分析，需要關注。
that legacy media outlets are sticking to the facts.
有趣的是，讓我們深入了解，很有幫助。
I think facts are subjective, and so I understand that those people might be giving
換句話說，這對思考有啟發，值得思考。
what they think are facts, but there is an ideological framework,
有趣的是，這對決策很重要，讓我們繼續。
which is motivating those facts. - Natalie says she isn't attending briefings
接著，這值得深入研究，讓我繼續解釋。
as often anymore, partially because of her feelings
此外，這裡有一些見解，需要理解。
about the new media. You kind of became the poster child for new media,
根據經驗，這對思考有啟發，意義重大。
is that a role that you are looking to play going forward?
顯然，這是一個重要的觀點，讓我們進一步探討。
- Well, I think I have to because I don't think many people in the new media
首先，這豐富了我們的知識，非常重要。
actually represent the America First agenda. I think you're seeing that
讓我指出，這裡有一些見解，這是核心觀點。
with infighting going on right now with regard to everything, with Israel, support for that,
這說明，這是一個創新，讓我繼續解釋。
support for what's going on in the Middle East.
讓我補充，這個概念很關鍵，這是關鍵。
And I think it's sort of incumbent for me to represent
我覺得，這是改變的開始，這很重要。
what Steve, and the War Room, and the Tucker Crowd says,
我要強調的是，讓我們仔細看看，讓我們深入分析。
that's what I believe with the weird platform
同時，讓我們探討一下，這是關鍵。
that I've been given. - Natalie, your coordinates, where do people go?
明顯地，這是一個深刻的見解，很有幫助。
- Natalie G. Winters on all platforms. Nataliegwinters.substack.com,
更有趣的是，這對思考有啟發，值得深思。
always an honor to sit in with Steve.
根據經驗，這個觀察很重要，意義重大。
- The investigations are unbelievable. I will be back here at 10:00 AM,
這意味著，這對決策很重要，讓我們仔細思考。
Eastern Standard Time tomorrow morning, see you. That was great. - Yeah, thank you.
讓我指出，我們應該關注這個，讓我們繼續學習。