I feel like I'm like totally naked in front of you. I feel like pretty vulnerable in a long way. Uh I hear you.

我感覺我在你面前完全赤裸。我感覺很脆弱，以一種很長遠的方式。嗯，我聽到你說的了。

We have become so habitualized to living B plus lives. I mean I think I was living a B+ life and I didn't realize it because there were so many aspects of it

我們已經習慣了過 B+ 的生活。我是說我認為我過的是 B+ 的生活，我沒有意識到因為它有很多方面

that from the outside looked like an A or an A+ life. You would have been around 45 and one day you would have been found yourself in your car crying

從外面看起來像是 A 或 A+ 的生活。你大概會在 45 歲左右，有一天你會發現自己在車裡哭得

uncontrollably and you would have said what have I done? Sometimes the outside world is the one confirming to us our life is perfect and we know inside and

無法控制，然後你會說我做了什麼？有時候外界就是那個向我們確認我們的生活是完美的，而我們內心知道，

we've got like this kind of uh uh we know how much we are actually living our the life we want. We know because when we're living it we feel exquisitely

我們有一種...嗯，我們知道我們實際上在多大程度上過著我們想要的生活。我們知道因為當我們在過那種生活時我們感覺

alive and so it usually is a crisis where people are fired or go through a divorce or have a breakup of some kind that's and they'll say wait okay I can't

極度活著。所以通常是一個危機，人們被解僱或經歷離婚或某種分手，他們會說等等好我不能

take it anymore that I mean look there's four things that destroy you living your own life. I call them the four horsemen of dream destruction. But it captures these things. It captures self-care,

再忍受了。我是說看，有四件事會毀掉你過自己的生活。我稱它們為夢想毀滅的四騎士。但它捕捉了這些東西。它捕捉了自我照顧、

recreation, pleasure, and sex. Susie, welcome to Tiger Sisters. So happy to be here.

休閒、快樂和性。Susie，歡迎來到 Tiger Sisters。很高興來到這裡。

>> We're so excited. So Susie Welch has lived a dozen chapters. editor-inchief of Harvard Business Review, best-selling author, professor at NYU Stern, and podcast host. Her hit course and new

我們太興奮了。Susie Welch 經歷了很多章節。《哈佛商業評論》主編、暢銷書作者、紐約大學 Stern 教授、播客主持人。她的熱門課程和新

book, Becoming You, have become a movement, pushing people to face the hardest question there is. Are you really living your own life or living through someone else's script? May I say

書《成為你自己》已經成為一場運動，推動人們面對最難的問題。你真的在過你自己的生活還是在按照別人的劇本生活？我可以說

that becoming you, the question it actually answers is, what should I do with my life? Which it leads you to ask, is the life I have right now the life I

《成為你自己》回答的問題實際上是，我應該用我的生活做什麼？這會讓你問，我現在擁有的生活是我

want? So, it's all the really easy, fun questions.

想要的嗎？所以，都是些真正簡單、有趣的問題。

>> Yeah. Just a light day of complicated kind of conversation. Yeah.

是的。只是輕鬆的一天，一些複雜的對話。是的。

>> Yeah. There's more. >> Okay. >> So, Doctor Susie Welch, yes, that's right. Doctor has spent her entire career cutting through the myths about money, power, and love to help people

是的。還有更多。好的。所以，Susie Welch 博士，是的，沒錯。博士整個職業生涯都在打破關於金錢、權力和愛的迷思，幫助人們

live their lives with purpose. And also, we were we've been playing it cool since the beginning, but we're truly fans of yours. Like, really we love everything you do. Like, we think you're so

有目的地生活。而且，我們從一開始就裝作很酷，但我們真的是你的粉絲。真的，我們愛你做的一切。我們認為你

fabulous and we want to be you. And I also want to get my PhD and I'm so like there's just a >> Okay. All right. All right. Well, it's a

太棒了，我們想成為你。我也想拿我的博士學位，我只是...好的。好的。好的。嗯，這是

mutual fan club right here, right? Big loving.

互相欣賞俱樂部，對吧？大家很愛。

>> And so in becoming you, you introduced the value bridge and it's a framework that you've developed that helps you figure out who we are and what we want

在《成為你自己》中，你介紹了價值橋，這是你開發的一個框架，幫助你弄清楚我們是誰以及我們想

to do. And so we've shared our values bridge results with you. We've taken the test >> and please be honest, what is wrong with us >> and what is the thing you understand

做什麼。所以我們已經和你分享了我們的價值橋結果。我們做了測試，請誠實點，我們有什麼問題，你對

about us? >> What is right? I know. I can't wait to do this. I mean there's it's you have very exciting results. Very interesting.

我們了解什麼？什麼是對的？我知道。我等不及要做這個了。我是說你有非常令人興奮的結果。非常有趣。

I was a little takenback by your results and so we will go deep d deep dive into them. So the class I teach becoming you um excavates three data sets. Your

我對你的結果有點驚訝，所以我們會深入探討它們。所以我教的《成為你自己》這門課挖掘三個數據集。你的

values, your aptitudes and your economically viable interests because you need all of that data to synthesize and then come out with your purpose. In in the class in one semester the weight

價值觀、你的能力和你的經濟上可行的興趣，因為你需要所有這些數據來綜合，然後得出你的目標。在一個學期的課程中等候

list was 800 students and so it was and now I and now I teach it in mega sections. Um because who is if you can find for me the one person who doesn't

名單有 800 名學生，所以現在我用大班教。嗯，因為如果你能為我找到一個不問的人

ask the question wait what should I do with my life or is this the right thing um I don't know where that person is. So I put together a great team of engineers

「等等我應該用我的生活做什麼」或「這是對的事情嗎」這個問題，嗯，我不知道那個人在哪裡。所以我組建了一個優秀的工程師團隊

and psychometricians and developers and we created this tool the values bridge which rank orders your values from 1 to 16 and it tells you which values you hold and how much you're living them.

我們建立了一個價值橋評估。它是免費的。你可以去 beecomingyoubook.com 做。

Yeah. So, we call that gap the authenticity gap. And so, what I have now in front of me is the list of your values from 1 to 16 and how much you're

評估測量你的價值觀。你的價值觀是 13 個人類終極目標之一。它們是像關心、創造力、信仰、影響、領導這樣的東西。

actually living them. Um, I think that I was a little bit surprised by the difference in your values. So, should we do it?

每個人都有所有這些價值觀，但優先級不同。評估找出你的前五名。

>> Yeah. >> Okay, let's do it. >> And also just I feel like I'm like totally naked in front of you.

一旦你知道你的價值觀，你就可以用它們來評估你的職業、你的關係、你生活的每一個部分。它們匹配嗎？

>> I feel like it's pretty vulnerable in a way.

這是一個強大的框架。讓我們開始看看你的價值橋結果，Jean。

>> Yeah. Um, uh, I hear you. I hear you. uh that there is this moment and so you're wonderful to go ahead and do it here on

好的。所以 Jean，你的前五個價值觀是影響、自主、安全、財富和愛。

the podcast but you know part of what you're doing yourselves is you're allowing people to be vulnerable and listening to you and you talk about all the really big stuff so it's not just

影響是第一名。這意味著你想在世界上產生影響。你想讓事情變得更好。

young people who are going through it I mean there's people 40 50 years old who are sitting there saying whose life did I just live >> okay so that's it

自主是第二名。你想掌控你自己的時間表和決定。你不想別人告訴你該做什麼。

>> it's I'm okay let's do it >> this is office hours actually is I'm psyched I love it all right Sheree we'll start with you >> okay so your number one value is something

這很有道理。我一直討厭有老闆。我喜歡能夠自己做決定。

that we call radius. And this is a value that reflects how much you want to change the world, how much you want to have systemic change. Uh when I have in

安全是第三名。這意味著你重視穩定性。你想知道你的基礎是安全的。

class students who present as what we would call social justice warriors, they always are number one on radius. I have a daughter who's an artist and an animal rights activist. She's number one on

財富是第四名。這不僅僅是關於錢。是關於豐富和選擇。有選項。

radius. Um and so and thank God the man that she's about to marry is also that because this if you have this value and you are marrying somebody who does not

愛是第五名。關係和連結對你很重要。

have it, I I wish you well. Um because this is a very strongly presenting value. So, there's something in you that seeks systemic change. You're not satisfied with um things staying the way

現在這是有趣的部分。當我看你的價值觀組合時，我看到了一些緊張。

they are. You have a a dream of in some way changing the world. Does that feel real to you?

影響和自主是你的前兩名。但你也有安全在第三名。

>> It does. I've been called a dreamer and actually there was a conflict my my boyfriend when I was in my early 20s.

這可能會造成衝突。影響和自主推動你冒險、開創新事物。但安全讓你想要穩定。

>> We both worked at the same company, but we had different views on how to approach >> our life. I was like, I have such a big

這是正確的。我總是感覺被拉向兩個方向。

dream of things I want to do and through my career create impact. And he's like, "Would you just be happy like living in the suburbs with just like a plain house

好消息是意識到這種緊張可以幫助你做出更好的決定。你可以找到同時服務於影響、自主和安全的方式。

and a dog?" And there was so much derision in that comment, but I'm like, "What's wrong with what I want to do?" >> And and I hope you are not still with this person.

例如，你可以建立被動收入以提供安全感，同時追求有影響力的專案。

>> I'm not. I'm not. >> God is all I can say. I I mean, and that's why I said that this value is so strong in how it drives how we live and

現在讓我們看看 Sheree 的結果。

work that if you do not share it with a partner. So, I should point out that the values bridge, the test itself has a functionality that if another person

好的，Sheree，你的前五名是創造力、愛、樂趣、自主和影響。

takes it and you both check a box, your values will come up next to each other and it will give you a conflict or harmony score. So, you and this young

創造力是第一名。你需要在你的工作中創造新東西。

man would have had like a like a 100% conflict on it. And I think when my daughter and her fiance took it, they're like, "Mom, you're home. Come talk to us

愛是第二名。關係對你非常重要。你從連結中獲得能量。

about our results." And as I was walking towards him, because the wedding's already planned, I was like, "Please God, I'm praying to you." And they had, thank God, their top six

樂趣是第三名。你想享受你正在做的事情。如果不好玩，你就不太可能堅持下去。

values were exactly the same. Oh my god.

是的，這太準確了。如果我不喜歡某件事，我就會失去動力。

>> Wow. >> Yes. I like almost wept for throw. Now look, I >> I would have been shocked if they weren't. They're the essentially the same human being. So, all right. So,

自主是第四名，影響是第五名。所以你也想掌控你的生活並產生影響。

>> and I do think that her value of Radius comes through very clearly actually in Tiger Sisters and is the core mission.

現在，我想談談你們倆的一些相似之處。你們都有自主和影響在你們的前五名。

Yes. Tiger Sisters is a big reason why we're doing what we're doing is very much driven by her number one core value.

這說明了為什麼你們一起工作得這麼好。你們有共同的核心價值觀。

>> I want to say two things. One is >> I think you're exactly right because you could have done anything.

但也有一些差異。Jean 有安全和財富。Sheree 有創造力和樂趣。

>> You could have done you could have been a product manager. There's a million jobs and you took the job which had high risk, right? You did startup but had the

這些差異可能是互補的。Jean 帶來了實際性和穩定性。Sheree 帶來了創造力和能量。

potential for the most impact. Now radius is also a high value of yours.

現在讓我們談談如何使用這個框架來設計你想要的生活。

It's number five. So that's still a core value of yours. It's still very high.

第一步是意識。知道你的價值觀是什麼。大多數人從未真正思考過他們的價值觀。

It's not as high as your sisters, but luckily because you're working together, I'm very happy that you both have radius high up. Okay. All right. All right. So your second value is achievement, which

他們只是過著生活，做社會或他們的父母告訴他們的事情。

is the desire to have success that other people can see. Now really interestingly um this makes you different than many people of your generation because typically for people how old are you?

第二步是評估。看看你生活的每一個方面。它是否符合你的價值觀？

>> I'm 30. >> Okay. Gen Z for instance topping off at age 26 achievement as a value is number 11.

你的工作？你的關係？你花時間的方式？它們是否服務於你最重要的東西？

>> And so um I have achievement is number two as well. And this is the desire to have accomplishments and success that other people can see. Either that's in

第三步是行動。做出改變以使你的生活與你的價值觀更一致。

you or it's not. Um and when I talk about achievement a lot of time with my Gen Z students they're like who needs that? And I'm like I don't know my whole generation did.

這可能意味著換工作、結束關係或開始新事物。

>> >> I was like, but I think actually it skews at business schools quite high. I think business schools select for it.

聽起來很可怕。但當你的生活與你的價值觀一致時，你會感覺更滿足、更有活力。

Let's see where achievement is for you. It's number four. Okay. So, you are both very high on achievement and and thus the name Tiger Sisters. So, I'm very

讓我們談談你提到的夢想毀滅的四騎士。

excited about that. So, very now we come to one of the most controversial talked about values. And this is a value that we uh that I had to use a Greek

好的。四騎士是阻止你過自己生活的事情。它們是自我照顧、休閒、快樂和性。

name for because it sets people's heads on fire. So, the value we call it udeimmonia. In Greek it means flourishing but it captures these things. It captures self-care,

等等，這些聽起來像是好事。為什麼它們是騎士？

>> recreation, pleasure and sex. Okay. So pick from any of those. They all track together. And you have it as number three. So for core value for you there

因為我們犧牲它們。我們告訴自己我們太忙了沒有時間照顧自己。太忙了沒有樂趣。太忙了沒有親密。

is this desire for I don't know if it's self-care or if it's fun or recreation or which one of it those parts it is.

當我們犧牲這些東西時，我們就沒有真正在生活。我們只是在生存。

Does that resonate for you? >> It does. Yeah.

這就是你之前說的 B+ 生活。看起來不錯但感覺不對。

>> And I saw that it's in conflict with my desire to achieve >> and to have affluence uh which comes next. So we let's see where udimonia is

完全正確。那麼我們如何停止犧牲這些？

for you. Now actually I will say that your a your udimonia was lower. Um it was at uh eight in the middle and um for me it's number 15. So I have like and

首先，承認它們很重要。不是奢侈品。不是可選的。是必要的。

I'll tell you this about the whole one of the beautiful things in my opinion about the values bridge is it allows us to talk about people's values without

第二，安排它們。把它們放在你的日曆上就像放會議一樣。如果它不在你的日曆上，它就不會發生。

any judgment. You know these are values and you can be higher on them or lower on them and they're choices with consequences. And so when I tell people

第三，設定界限。對那些不服務於你的價值觀的事情說不。

like, well, udeonia is number 15 for me.

我喜歡這個。這太實用了。在我們結束之前還有什麼智慧要分享嗎？

It's like, what's wrong with you? And I was like, well, my joy is in my work and my achievement. And so I don't I don't necessarily like want to like I don't

是的。記住，你的生活是你自己的。你不必按照別人的劇本生活。

even know what selfcare is. Of course, generationally, that's like maybe my selfare is in my dogs. Like the amount of fun I have with my dogs.

做價值橋評估。發現你的價值觀是什麼。然後有勇氣過與它們一致的生活。

>> I think it is also a generational like reflection of us because I think like her generation, she's on the cusp of Gen Z. She's a millennial. like they're all

這不容易。但這是值得的。

about self-care and they're like work life balance is really important versus like I feel like I went up through the you know investment banking like finance world where it was like

謝謝你，Susie。這是一個不可思議的對話。

>> you have to put like those things on the wayside in order to actually be successful at achievement or all those other things right which is like my students and many

謝謝你們邀請我。

many people take the values bridge and they get as top value udimonia and then right after it they get affluence or achievement and then they're like oh

如果你喜歡這一集，請訂閱 Tiger Sisters 播客。在 Spotify 和 Apple Podcasts 上給我們五星評價。

that's the reason for the uh oh feeling because those are those are in conflict with each other.

分享就是關愛。感謝收聽。我們下次見。

>> Yeah. >> And so you definitely look the test is going to tell you where you've got your conflicts and your harmonies. Um for you is three. It's not number one. Um and

拜拜。

for you it's it's eight. Um then we have affluence which is the desire to have wealth. And I think again >> there's a little stink off of this in

對你來說是八。嗯，然後我們有富裕，這是對財富的渴望。我認為再次，世界上對這個有一些負面看法，

the world, right? But why? This is a choice. And if you're not hurting anybody, it's your value. I mean I have plenty of students who have it as number

對吧？但為什麼？這是一個選擇。如果你沒有傷害任何人，這是你的價值觀。我的意思是我有很多學生把它放在第

one and it's high for me as well and it I think there's no harmony people want affluence because they >> um have it it it feeds another value yeah like beholderism which we're about

一位，對我來說也很高，我認為沒有什麼不好的，人們想要富裕是因為它餵養了另一個價值觀，像是我們即將談到的審美觀，因為那是你的第一價值觀，我們待會兒會談到它。

to come to because that was your number one value and we'll talk about it in a second. We both have um affluence in the top five and then uh we have uh for you

我們兩個都有富裕在前五名，然後對你來說

Sheree um voice which is the desire for authentic self-expression. It's like the I want to be me. I want to self-express.

Sheree，嗯，聲音，這是對真實自我表達的渴望。就像是我想做我自己。我想自我表達。

I don't want to be in a culture or an environment where I can't let my whole self be present. Um, and again, this is for Gen Z, the number two value. So, for

我不想待在一個我不能展現完整自我的文化或環境中。嗯，再次，這對Z世代來說是第二重要的價值觀。所以，對

you, voice is um, it's down at 10, which suggests to me that you have more comfort around fitting in to organizational cultures and two, leaving some of your um, >> authentic self-expression,

你來說，聲音在第10位，這對我來說表明你更能適應組織文化，第二，把一些你的真實自我表達，

>> not aside, but to your private time.

不是放在一邊，而是留給你的私人時間。

Like, you don't feel the need. People who have high voice want to be themselves all the time. And people with lower voice are like, "Look, there's a

就像，你不覺得有這個需要。高聲音的人想要一直做自己。低聲音的人就像是，「看，有

time where I can be myself." And it's when I'm >> well at home. I feel like I've had to do that my whole life in order to succeed,

一個時間我可以做自己。」那就是當我在家的時候。我覺得我一生都必須這樣做才能成功，

in order to get where I am now. Versus like Sheree, ever since she was very, very young, she was always like a superstar. Like she's always been even among supported. Yeah. She's like the

才能達到我現在的位置。對比像Sheree，從她很小很小的時候起，她一直都像是個超級明星。她一直都被支持。是的。她就像是

the younger sister. She's the youngest cousin. She was always >> the superstar. Like I don't know how else to say it. she has star power and like it was always she always expressed

妹妹。她是最小的表妹。她一直都是超級明星。我不知道怎麼說。她有明星氣質，而且她總是表達

her voice and it was very much >> appreciated and loved and I think yeah >> well there's the you know there's the interesting comment because what I often

她的聲音，而且非常受欣賞和喜愛，我認為是的，嗯，這是一個有趣的評論，因為我經常

see especially with young women women uh up until sort of their 40s >> is they can have quite high voice but their authenticity gap is massive so

看到特別是年輕女性，直到她們40多歲的女性，她們可能有很高的聲音，但她們的真實性差距是巨大的，所以

they can have voices number one and the authenticity gap is 98% meaning they want to do it >> and they can't and I had a student come

她們的聲音可能是第一位，但真實性差距是98%，意味著她們想做但做不到，我有一個學生來

to me one times just crying lying saying look at this and she showed me her results and voice was number one authenticity gap like 98 99%. And she

找我一次，哭著說看看這個，她給我看她的結果，聲音是第一位，真實性差距像是98、99%。她

said I wish you could teach a class about how we can do this how we can be ourselves. I don't even know how to do it. U my culture has taken this ability

說我希望你能教一門課關於我們如何能做到這個，我們如何能做自己。我甚至不知道怎麼做。我的文化把這個能力

away from me and I said that I love the idea of a class on that. That's not I can't teach that. That's not my area of expertise but I'm cheering you on.

從我身上奪走了，我說我喜歡這個想法，開一門這樣的課。但這不是我能教的。那不是我的專業領域，但我為你加油。

>> Well I think so much of it is environmental too. And so when you say culture, like my first thought was like work culture. Yeah. Like the work

嗯，我認為很多是環境因素。所以當你說文化時，我的第一個想法是工作文化。是的。像是工作

culture that Jean grew up in was basically as she explained like it was pretty much to like to stifle yourself for the bottom line. Whereas where like

文化，Jean成長的環境基本上就像她解釋的那樣，為了底線壓抑自己。而像

you know growing up uh being raised in like a a tech company as my first job, it was very much like be yourself, right?

你知道的，在一家科技公司長大作為我的第一份工作，非常像是做你自己，對吧？

>> And we also had like one day off a month to for udemonia to like you know explore something about yourself outside of work. people who have very high

我們每個月也有一天假來追求幸福感，像是你知道的，探索工作之外的自己。高成就感的人，

achievement, very high affluence go into investment banking and they have voice very low and they don't care if you have very high voice you know Goldman Sachs

高富裕感的人進入投資銀行，他們的聲音很低，他們不在乎。如果你有很高的聲音，你知道高盛

is going to be a different kind of fit for you.

對你來說會是一種不同的適合。

>> True. >> Yeah. >> And so it's this is one so there's many many good reasons to know your values.

確實。是的。所以這是一個，有很多很好的理由來了解你的價值觀。

One is to have this very candid conversation with yourself about whether you're living them and and if not whose values you are living and then the

一個是和自己進行非常坦誠的對話，關於你是否在實踐它們，如果沒有，你在實踐誰的價值觀，然後

second reason is to say am I working in the right place? Am I going to last here? Because if you don't have if you have a mismatch on values with your

第二個理由是問我是否在正確的地方工作？我會在這裡待下去嗎？因為如果你和你的

organization, you just go to work every day in a suit that's three sizes too small and it stinks, you know. Well, let's talk about beauty for a second because it's your top value.

組織在價值觀上不匹配，你每天都穿著小三號的西裝去上班，這很糟糕，你知道的。好，讓我們談談美，因為它是你的首要價值觀。

>> It's her top value and she's embarrassed by it.

這是她的首要價值觀，她對此感到尷尬。

>> Yes. I always Here's what I just feel like I have to explain it.

是的。我總是覺得我需要解釋一下。

>> No, let's talk about it for a second.

不，讓我們談談這個。

First of all, a lot of people have this value. It's one of the oldest identified values by scholars. We call it beholderism. It it is the value that

首先，很多人有這個價值觀。這是學者們確定的最古老的價值觀之一。我們稱之為審美觀。這是反映

reflects how much you care about how things look, including yourself. I always say that when people find out that this is their top value that they need to go into support group. Okay. And

你多麼在乎事物看起來如何的價值觀，包括你自己。我總是說當人們發現這是他們的首要價值觀時，他們需要參加支持團體。好的。

so many many I've done this work with many influencers because my life brings me into um um contact with a lot of influencers. For almost every influencer it's the top value.

所以我和很多網紅做過這個工作，因為我的生活讓我接觸到很多網紅。對幾乎每個網紅來說，這都是首要價值觀。

>> Um and I'm not surprised because there's something very visual about being an influencer um that how things look and sound. I will say that to go deeper than

嗯，我不驚訝，因為做網紅有很視覺化的東西，關於事物看起來和聽起來如何。我會說更深入地說

that holderism is often a proxy for desiring harmony.

審美觀通常是對渴望和諧的代理。

>> Okay? You want things to look beautiful.

好嗎？你希望事物看起來美麗。

And my feeling about that is there's not very much we can control in this world.

我對此的感覺是這個世界上我們能控制的東西不多。

>> Not very much we can control. But we can control our environment and we can control ourselves. And I often think that's reflected in high beholderism.

我們能控制的不多。但我們可以控制我們的環境，我們可以控制我們自己。我經常認為這反映在高審美觀中。

Now, I don't know where your beholderism is coming from.

現在，我不知道你的審美觀是從哪裡來的。

>> I think that's so true. >> You you look beautiful. So that's part of it. But this desire that things should have a certain harmony that the world just works better when things are

我認為那太對了。你看起來很美。所以那是一部分。但這種希望事物有某種和諧的渴望，當事物被

uh you know um elevated. I mean, >> uh, there used to be a store in, um, New York that that that sort of just beautiful interior designs, and I used

你知道的，提升時，世界運作得更好。我的意思是，曾經有一家店在紐約，那種只有美麗的室內設計，我曾經

to call it the Palace of Want because I walked in there, I was like, I want everything. I want my house to look like this. And then when my test course came

稱它為慾望宮殿，因為我走進去，我就像是，我想要一切。我想要我的房子看起來像這樣。然後當我的測試課程結果

back and Boulder is bored for me. I was like, yeah, I know. I'm the daughter of an art architect and an artist. My home is my palette. It it's like I paint on,

回來，審美觀對我來說很高。我就像是，是的，我知道。我是一個建築師和藝術家的女兒。我的家是我的調色板。就像是我在上面畫畫，

you know, my my, you know, canvas is my home. And so, um, so beholdism tends to skew either you have it very high or you have it very low.

你知道的，我的畫布是我的家。所以，審美觀傾向於要麼你有非常高，要麼非常低。

>> I think in some ways it's actually very much of a relief to be able to like put a a word to it, a name to it because

我認為在某些方面這實際上是一種解脫，能夠給它一個詞，一個名字，因為

there's just so many things about me like, you know, growing up in middle school, I would borrow like dozens of books about interior design like when I

有很多關於我的事情，像是你知道的，在中學長大時，我會借像是幾十本關於室內設計的書，當我

was like 12 years old and just non-stop read all these books about interior design. And I was like a freak of a 12-year-old. Like who does that?

12歲的時候，就不停地讀所有這些關於室內設計的書。我像是一個12歲的怪人。誰會這樣做？

>> I I did that. >> Yeah, I did that. Well, first of all, my dad was an architect. tons of books around the house. But when Architectural Digest would come, I would like go

我做過。是的，我做過。嗯，首先，我爸爸是建築師。家裡到處都是書。但當《建築文摘》來的時候，我會像

through the pages like a zombie, like h like obsessed. Yeah. And uh my homes are really curated. Um you know, very specifically to me, but I really care.

殭屍一樣翻頁，像是著迷了。是的。而且我的家真的是精心策劃的。嗯，你知道的，非常特別對我來說，但我真的很在乎。

And if I walk into the room and like the flowers are a color that's not vibing the rest of the room, I'm I like will carry them into the kitchen saying,

如果我走進房間，像是花的顏色和房間其他部分不協調，我會把它們帶到廚房說，

"This is upsetting me." I mean, I'm really I this is your beholderism. It's it's and the great thing is like just celebrated. So many cool people have beholders of very high. So it's not

「這讓我不舒服。」我的意思是，我真的很。這是你的審美觀。這是，而且很棒的是就慶祝它。很多很酷的人有很高的審美觀。所以它不是

>> it's and again no value is good or bad.

而且再次，沒有價值觀是好或壞的。

It's just you. >> Yeah. >> And but it's very good to be able to explain to people I have super high beholders and just bear with me while I

這只是你。是的。但能夠向人們解釋我有超高的審美觀，請容忍我

sort of change this place setting. Right. >> Yeah. And I think it's kind of I also I've always loved art growing up. I love like all different expressions of art. I think it's

重新調整這個擺設位置是非常好的。對。是的。我認為這有點像，我也一直喜歡藝術長大。我喜歡所有不同的藝術表達。我認為這

>> Yes. I really really just like deeply appreciate the sublime.

是的。我真的真的很深深欣賞崇高。

>> Yes. And >> that's exactly it. >> I I don't know how else to explain it.

是的。那正是它。我不知道怎麼解釋。

Like back when, you know, you could see all the runway shows for free on vogue.com. Like I would every every fashion season, I would like pour through all of the runway shows like and

像是以前，你知道的，你可以在vogue.com免費看所有走秀。像是我每個時裝季都會翻看所有的走秀，

like look at them one by one and just form my own opinions and it like that was my happy place.

像是一個一個看，形成自己的意見，那是我的快樂之地。

>> Can I just say give you I want to give you some gratuitous advice which is that the next time you get serious with somebody, >> give him the test. Make sure his

我能說給你一些無償的建議嗎？就是下次你和某人認真交往時，給他做這個測試。確保他的

beholderism is up there like yours because I think it gets really hard in a relationship when one person has high beholderism and the other just doesn't get it.

審美觀像你的一樣高，因為我認為當一個人有高審美觀而另一個人不理解時，關係會變得很難。

>> Yes. >> Because it bumps into everything. It sort of bumps into where you choose going to a restaurant. It bumps to like what your house looks like. It bumps

是的。因為它影響到一切。它影響到你選擇去哪家餐廳。它影響到你的房子看起來怎樣。它影響

into like where you vacation. It just bumps into everything. So check out that check out belovedness and check out beholderism.

到你去哪裡度假。它就是影響到一切。所以檢查一下那個，檢查一下被愛感，檢查一下審美觀。

>> Okay. That is so crazy because even before I took this test, I said something to Sheree the other day about this where I was like, "Oh yeah, like

好。那太瘋狂了，因為甚至在我做這個測試之前，前幾天我對Sheree說了一些關於這個的話，我說，「喔是的，像是

you know, I've been on a couple dates with this guy." I was like, I just don't know if he really like appreciates some of the things that I appreciate.

你知道的，我和這個男生約會了幾次。」我說，我只是不知道他是否真的欣賞我欣賞的一些東西。

Like >> like if I look nice, like will he even appreciate that? Like what's the point if he doesn't appreciate me looking?

像是如果我看起來很好，他會欣賞嗎？如果他不欣賞我看起來漂亮，那有什麼意義？

>> I know I know I secretly think I developed a dating app by accident. I mean I was like I think oops. But I mean

我知道，我知道，我暗自認為我意外開發了一個約會應用。我的意思是，我就像是哎呀。但我的意思是

I think that I like I said to you about my daughter and her soon to be husband in two weeks. you know that um their top six values were identical and they are

我認為我像是對你說過關於我女兒和她兩週後即將成為她丈夫的人。你知道他們的前六個價值觀是相同的，他們

weirdly like happy because they just everything and I he was reminiscing about the first time he met her >> and uh he went back to the office after

奇怪地很幸福，因為他們就是一切，他在回憶他第一次見到她的時候，他們第一次吃完午飯後他回到辦公室

they had lunch for the first time and he said to the people he's working with I don't know what just happened >> and it's like when you meet somebody

他對同事說我不知道剛才發生了什麼，就像是當你遇到某人

who's got your exact values you have this feeling like what just happened but you sort of saying if I even elevated my beholders and and sort of showed my beholders would even care is

有和你完全相同的價值觀的人時，你會有這種感覺，像是剛才發生了什麼，但你有點在說，如果我甚至提升我的審美觀並展示我的審美觀，他們會在乎嗎，是

>> a bit of a red flag. Yeah. Oh, >> yeah. It's like the worst guest we ever had on, you know.

一個危險信號。是的。喔，是的。就像是我們有過的最糟糕的嘉賓，你知道的。

>> No, the best. The best. >> Well, let's see. We'll put this to the test.

不，最好的。最好的。好，讓我們看看。我們來測試一下。

>> Well, I think it's interesting, Susie, what you said about control because I think >> that's true.

嗯，我認為很有趣，Susie，你說的關於控制的事，因為我認為那是真的。

>> I I mean, of course, you love you love art and beauty and you love flipping through those, you know, magazines. Um, but I think there's something to be said about control. Yes.

我的意思是，當然，你喜歡藝術和美，你喜歡翻那些，你知道的，雜誌。嗯，但我認為關於控制有一些可說的。是的。

like having some sort of control over your own life, your environment when this in this world like what can you really control?

像是在這個世界上對你自己的生活、環境有某種控制，你真的能控制什麼？

>> That's right. I think beholderism for people is absolutely a way to make order of a world that can feel very chaotic.

沒錯。我認為對人們來說，審美觀絕對是一種在感覺非常混亂的世界中建立秩序的方式。

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But sometimes it's just loving beautiful things. I don't want to, you know, like sometimes, >> you know, it's just cuz you love beauty

是的。是的。但有時候只是喜歡美麗的東西。我不想要，你知道的，有時候，你知道的，只是因為你喜歡美

and it's okay to love beauty. I >> think it's both for you.

而且喜歡美是可以的。我認為對你來說兩者都是。

>> Yeah. Yeah. All right. So, those are your those um are your top values. Let's just talk briefly about your your bottom two values because sometimes those tell

是的。是的。好。所以，這些是你的首要價值觀。讓我們簡單談談你的最後兩個價值觀，因為有時候那些也告訴

us a lot of things also. Okay. >> Okay.

我們很多事情。好。好。

>> So your bottom val your lowest value is something we call belonging which is sort of um it's like kind of community.

所以你的最低價值觀是我們稱之為歸屬感的東西，有點像是社區。

It's clubs. It's hanging with friends. It's just wanting to be part of affinity groups. Um and so oftentimes people with high voice as you have have low

是俱樂部。是和朋友們在一起。是想成為親和力團體的一部分。嗯，所以通常有高聲音的人像你一樣有低

belonging. Um and so or does that sound right to you?

歸屬感。嗯，所以這聽起來對你來說是正確的嗎？

>> Yeah, I I think so. It's just I I don't really believe in like groups or like group dynamics. I'm like much more like deep one-on-one relationships with people, >> right?

是的，我認為是的。只是我不太相信像是群體或群體動態。我更像是和人有深度的一對一關係，對吧？

>> So, this is 100% tracks with what you're saying. Your second to bottom one is place. Meaning, uh if it's a low value, it means you could live anywhere that

所以，這100%符合你說的。你倒數第二個是地點。意思是，如果它是一個低價值觀，意味著你可以住在任何地方，

you're not, okay, I have to live in this one city. Like for me, place is very high because when I leave New York City, I hyperventilate and feel like I must

你不是像是，好，我必須住在這一個城市。像是對我來說，地點非常高，因為當我離開紐約市時，我會過度換氣並覺得我必須

get right back. Um and so I love to travel, but I'm like, it's not New York. And that gives me very high place. And so it sounds to me like uh

馬上回去。嗯，所以我喜歡旅行，但我就像是，這不是紐約。這讓我地點很高。所以聽起來對我來說

with this value that you're you're fine with where you're living but you're not like it does not have to be one place.

有了這個價值觀，你對你住的地方是可以的，但你不是像是一定要住在一個地方。

>> I think so. Especially recently with so much moving like leaving Palo Alto coming to LA. I think I'm in a time in my life where place will not rank high.

我認為是的。特別是最近搬家這麼多，離開帕洛阿爾託來到洛杉磯。我認為我在人生的一個階段，地點不會排名很高。

>> Yes. >> I'm looking right now I'm looking where your belovedness is. So let's talk about the value of belovedness before we look at your values. And so belovedness is a

是的。我正在看你的被愛感在哪裡。所以在我們看你的價值觀之前，讓我們談談被愛感這個價值觀。被愛感是一個

very interesting value because it reflects how much you want to be in an intimate partnered relationship >> and um it's very interesting um to hear the cultural narrative about how much

非常有趣的價值觀，因為它反映了你多麼想要處於一個親密的伴侶關係中，嗯，聽到關於你應該多麼想要婚姻的文化敘事是非常有趣的。

you should want marriage in a way. I think this is about a a relationship that is marriage or like marriage and women like us have gone through professional schools and we've been told

我認為這是關於一種像婚姻或類似婚姻的關係，像我們這樣的女性經歷了專業學校，我們被告訴

it's the career it's the career and um many and that's fine and it's true for many of us but often times there are women who do not feel able to say but I

是職業是職業，嗯，很多，那很好，對我們很多人來說是真的，但經常有些女性覺得無法說但我

also really want to get married and it shows up in their results >> it shows up and they come in and they've been like girl bossing it go bossing it

也真的很想結婚，這會顯示在她們的結果中，會顯示出來，她們來的時候一直是女強人，拼命工作

and then belovedness pops it number one and there's a 98% gap so for you, if you don't mind me saying, your belovedness is um at um eight, which sort of puts it

然後被愛感跳到第一位，有98%的差距，所以對你來說，如果你不介意我說，你的被愛感在第八位，這有點把它

in the middle. Like >> you might want a partnered relationship, but it's not your driving organizing principle. You're not choosing your job or your location or your weekend activities on finding this partner that

放在中間。像是你可能想要一個伴侶關係，但它不是你的驅動組織原則。你不是根據找到這個伴侶來選擇你的工作或地點或週末活動，

um you're a partner for your life. Yeah.

嗯，一個人生伴侶。是的。

>> Yeah. >> Sounds true. >> I think that's right. Where I am in in this state in life.

是的。聽起來是真的。我認為那是對的。在我人生的這個階段。

>> Shall we see where belovedness is for you? Okay.

我們來看看你的被愛感在哪裡？好。

>> And the answer is is 11. Pretty low. So yeah, let's hear what what are your thoughts on your belovedness? Not being my thoughts are that >> I am surprised because I consider myself

答案是11。相當低。所以是的，讓我們聽聽你對你的被愛感有什麼想法？不是我的想法是我很驚訝，因為我認為自己

to be like a very romantic person and I like I love the idea of romance. I love being in romance. I love being in partner relationships. I think that it's

是一個非常浪漫的人，我喜歡浪漫的想法。我喜歡處於浪漫中。我喜歡處於伴侶關係中。我認為它

low now because I recently um broke my engagement about a year ago with someone that I was together for eight years.

現在很低是因為我最近大約一年前打破了和一個在一起八年的人的訂婚。

Okay. So I think it's more of like a snapshot in time.

好。所以我認為這更像是一個時間快照。

>> This is exactly why. >> Yeah. So for me, belovedness was very high and then my husband died and it went to it went to it's number 16 for me

這正是原因。是的。所以對我來說，被愛感曾經很高，然後我丈夫去世了，它變成了，它現在對我來說是第16位

now. And I think when you've been through a seismic event involving love, belovedness will shift. Yeah.

了。我認為當你經歷了涉及愛的重大事件時，被愛感會改變。是的。

>> Um and you have dep prioritized it because of what was certainly in some level a traumatic event for you. Yeah.

嗯，你已經把它的優先級降低了，因為對你來說在某種程度上肯定是一個創傷事件。是的。

And so I would not be surprised if we were to revisit with each other in six months or a year that it would move back up.

所以如果我們在六個月或一年後再見面，我不會驚訝它會回升。

>> Yeah. And I think it's also a response to I feel like in the past over you know the course of that 8-year relationship it was very high in my values and I

是的。我認為這也是對過去你知道的那八年關係過程中的一種反應，它在我的價值觀中非常高，我

think maybe it was I was like overweighting it.

認為也許我過度加權了它。

>> I think it might have been overexpressed right and it may be one of the reasons I don't want to go you know get too personal but it may have been

我認為它可能被過度表達了，而且這可能是原因之一，我不想太個人化，但它可能

overexpressing it was part of why the engagement ended up breaking. Yeah. Um, and I mean, if you had to guess while you were in that relationship, belovedness was maybe one or two,

過度表達它是訂婚最終破裂的部分原因。是的。嗯，我的意思是，如果你必須猜測在那段關係中時，被愛感可能是一或二，

probably overexpressed by quite a lot. Do you can you in your mind's eye imagine what your partner's belovedness was?

可能過度表達了很多。你能在你的腦海中想像你伴侶的被愛感是什麼嗎？

>> Definitely not as high because he's a much more like even killed. He's just not naturally like a romantic person.

絕對不是那麼高，因為他是一個更平穩的人。他只是不是天生浪漫的人。

He's just like very even killed, like not very expressive at all in terms of emotions. I think like radius belovedness with your partner should be about the same level. So if you both

他就是非常平穩，在情緒方面完全不表達。我認為你和伴侶的被愛感應該差不多。所以如果你們

have belovedness in the top five, fantastic. If you have it in the bottom five, also fantastic because you both are going to prioritize the relationships the same amount. But woe

兩個被愛感都在前五名，太棒了。如果你們都在後五名，也太棒了，因為你們都會同樣優先考慮關係。但

to the couple where the one person has belovedness in in the top and the other has it in the bottom. Sure.

一個人被愛感在前面而另一個在後面的伴侶就糟糕了。當然。

>> And all you're going to do is fight about >> how important the relationship. I actually love this framing. Like we love frameworks just like you. I do.

你們要做的就是爭論關係有多重要。我實際上喜歡這個框架。像是我們喜歡框架就像你一樣。我喜歡。

>> I actually think this is really interesting because I think recently I experienced a relationship where the the other person this guy like belovedness was super high on him. It's like he was

我實際上認為這真的很有趣，因為我認為最近我經歷了一段關係，另一個人這個男生被愛感超級高。他

just like super expressive with how much he liked me. He was like really open with like PDA like he just wore his heart on his sleeve and I was very

就是對他有多喜歡我非常表達。他對公開示愛真的很開放，他就是把心掛在袖子上，我非常

receptive to that. like it was >> very positive to experience such a different >> expression and it was like more aligned with >> I think what's right for me.

接受這個。就像是非常正面地體驗如此不同的表達，而且更符合我認為對我正確的東西。

>> I think your natural belovedness is quite high. I think right now it's down lower because you are working out and know our values though I think are

我認為你自然的被愛感相當高。我認為現在它比較低是因為你在處理中，知道我們的價值觀我認為是

pretty stable from sort of age 25 on. Um because a lot of things go into forming our values and then they all go into a

從大約25歲開始相當穩定的。嗯，因為很多東西會形成我們的價值觀，然後它們都進入一個

big stew and we mix it up. So what goes into forming our values? our parents, our culture, our society experience trauma >> and then by age 25 you kind of are who

大鍋裡，我們把它混合。那麼什麼會形成我們的價值觀？我們的父母、我們的文化、我們的社會、經歷創傷，然後到25歲你有點是你

you are but then a seismic life event can switch our values around some of us having a child going through divorce I mean all these different things but what

是誰了，但然後一個重大的人生事件可以改變我們的價值觀，我們中的一些人有孩子、經歷離婚，我的意思是所有這些不同的事情，但

changes is how much we're living them or not living them and the goal is to be living them right but that's kind of the work of our life is to work out the

改變的是我們實踐它們或不實踐它們的程度，目標是實踐它們，對吧，但那是我們一生的工作，是處理

conflicts and to live our values fully but becoming you the methodology itself says doesn't say go live your values it says figure out your values then figure out your aptitudes because you could

衝突並完全實踐我們的價值觀，但成為你這個方法論本身不是說去實踐你的價值觀，它說找出你的價值觀然後找出你的能力，因為你可以

want to be Selene Dion or whatever and have a very bad voice. And so you have to also know you can know your values but then you have to know what you're

想成為席琳·迪翁或什麼的但聲音很差。所以你也必須知道，你可以知道你的價值觀，但然後你必須知道你

good at and not and by that I mean your cognitive strengths and also your personality strengths because you can be good at a job because of your

擅長什麼和不擅長什麼，我的意思是你的認知優勢和你的人格優勢，因為你可以因為你的

personality and you can be so bad at a job because of your personality that I mean look there's four things that >> destroy you living your own life. I call

人格而擅長一份工作，你也可以因為你的人格而非常不擅長一份工作。我的意思是看，有四件事會毀掉你過自己的生活。我稱

them the four horsemen of dream destruction and they all start with ease. So the first one is expectations which is around like what your family's expecting and what you expect. Then the

它們為夢想毀滅的四騎士，它們都以E開頭。所以第一個是期望，是關於你家人的期望和你自己的期望。然後

second D is expedience because sometimes it's just easier. They come and they recruit you or the job's sitting there.

第二個E是權宜之計，因為有時候只是更容易。他們來招聘你或工作就在那裡。

It's your next door neighbor's brother has a job. You can fill it. It's not really perfect for you but it's easy and you just do things that are easier. And

是你隔壁鄰居的兄弟有一份工作。你可以填補它。它不是真的完美適合你，但它很容易，你就做更容易的事情。而且

we go against our values all the time because it's just the path of least resistance and the world is pretty hard anyway. So we do the easier thing. Yeah.

我們一直違背我們的價值觀，因為它只是阻力最小的路徑，而且這個世界本來就很難。所以我們做更容易的事情。是的。

>> Then there's events and events are like you got laid off so you do something else and then it's not quite right but you just stay. And events can push us,

然後有事件，事件像是你被裁員了所以你做其他事情，然後它不太對但你就待著。事件可以推動我們，

you know, getting married, having a baby, there's all sorts of events. And then the final is economic security. And we make all sorts of decisions based on money. Yeah. Even though sometimes money

你知道的，結婚，生孩子，有各種各樣的事件。然後最後是經濟安全。我們基於金錢做各種決定。是的。即使有時候金錢

doesn't actually matter to us all that much. I mean for Gen Z, affluence is not actually all that high. Stability is much higher. Much higher. And we have a

對我們來說實際上並不那麼重要。我的意思是對Z世代來說，富裕實際上並不那麼高。穩定性要高得多。高得多。我們有一個

value for stability. It's called scope. Let's see where you are with scope. Mhm.

穩定性的價值觀。它叫做範圍。讓我們看看你的範圍在哪裡。嗯。

>> That's about if you have high scope, you want a very big, highly stimulating. You don't really care that much about just stability for stability sake. Okay. So,

那是關於如果你有高範圍，你想要一個非常大的、高度刺激的。你不太在乎只是為了穩定而穩定。好。所以，

Jean, you are at six. Meaning it's not a it's it's actually pretty close to the top that you want stimulation, excitement, you want kind of a big life.

Jean，你是第六位。意思是它不是，它實際上相當接近頂部，你想要刺激、興奮，你想要一種大的人生。

>> That's what this would say. >> That's right.

這就是這會說的。沒錯。

>> And >> you on scope, it's pretty low for you. M you know that's there's something about it tracks kind of with your um udeonia a low scope and udimonia track together in

而你的範圍，對你來說相當低。嗯，你知道有一些東西，它和你的幸福感一起追蹤，低範圍和幸福感一起追蹤，

that you have a more comfort with having a life where you have some predictability >> that yeah >> I think so I mean like I like the occasional

就是你更適應有一些可預測性的生活，是的，我認為是的，我是說我喜歡偶爾的

>> occasional like oh this is a new experience but then I'm like oh I can come home and go to my gym classes and you know that's definitely showing up

偶爾的像是哦這是一個新體驗，但然後我就像是哦我可以回家去上我的健身課，你知道的，那肯定顯示在

here right but and we all have a different >> level of want and need and desire for disruption and people with very high scope are like I'll take the chaos

這裡了，對，但我們都有不同的想要和需要和渴望打斷的程度，範圍很高的人就像是我會接受混亂

because the fun of it or the excitement of it or the I had of a a student who had scope as her number one value and she said I just want to touch

因為它的樂趣或興奮或我有一個學生範圍是她的第一價值觀，她說我只想觸摸

everybody's brain >> okay and that I remember saying that I was like if I could you are the poster child for high scope um and and she's has a life where she's designed

每個人的大腦，好的，我記得說那個，我就像是如果我可以，你是高範圍的代言人，嗯，她有一個生活，她設計了

everything around that and luckily her husband has high scope also otherwise I think be quite miserable >> yeah yeah >> how do you feel do you feel seen?

一切圍繞那個，幸運的是她丈夫也有高範圍，否則我認為會相當悲慘，是的，是的，你感覺如何，你感覺被看到了嗎？

>> I feel so understood. I feel like with the top five and also my bottom two that we went through, I'm like I >> you in taking this test, it was very

我感覺被理解了。我覺得有了前五名以及我們經歷的後兩名，我就像是，在做這個測試時，非常

much like I poured my heart into it, answered everything super honestly >> and the results like reflect that. I think it's such good data to have, isn't

像是我傾注了我的心，非常誠實地回答了一切，結果反映了那個。我認為這是很好的數據，不是

it? And it allows you to talk to each other. Well, this is my scope value speaking. Well, look, this is, you know, with my high, you know, with my high

嗎？它允許你們互相交談。嗯，這是我的範圍價值觀在說話。嗯，看，這是，你知道的，有我的高，你知道的，有我的高

value of radius, I d I mean, it's a it is a it is a way to understand yourself and then understand those around you is this language, you know. So, we actually

半徑價值觀，我的意思是，它是一種理解自己然後理解週圍人的方式是這種語言，你知道的。所以，我們實際上

we say that all the time. It's like having the vocabulary to actually express something. That's what's really powerful about values bridge is it gives you the vocabulary

我們一直這樣說。就像是有詞彙來實際表達一些東西。這就是價值橋真正強大的地方，它給你詞彙

>> to put a name to something that you know in your heart, but you're like, how do I express this? And then now that we have the shared vocabulary, you we can

來給你心裡知道的東西一個名字，但你就像是，我怎麼表達這個？然後現在我們有了共享的詞彙，你我們可以

actually like talk >> like the word udeonia. never knew that word before it was very intentional that we named it the bridge >> right because when you have a language

實際上像是交談，像是幸福感這個詞。以前從來不知道這個詞，這是非常有意的，我們把它命名為橋，對的，因為當你有一種語言

you can build a bridge to understanding I mean we struggled with the name but the minute the bridge came to me I was like that is the name when I was guest

你可以建立一座理解的橋樑。我的意思是我們在名字上掙紮了，但當橋樑這個想法來到我腦海時，我就像是那就是名字。當我去年在史丹佛

lecturing at Stanford last year a student came up to me afterwards and she said you know all of your work reminds me of this Vickinstein quote you know you're at Stanford when somebody comes

客座演講時，一個學生後來走過來對我說，你知道你所有的工作讓我想起這句維根斯坦的名言，你知道當有人來

up says something like that she said reminds me of this Vickenstein quote the limits of my language are the limits of my world and I said that's

說這樣的話時你就知道你在史丹佛了，她說讓我想起這句維根斯坦的名言：我的語言的限制就是我的世界的限制，我說那

exactly right is this opens up a world of self-awareness and compassion and conversation which is the thing I dig about it. So >> this episode of Tiger Sisters is brought

完全正確，這打開了一個自我意識和同理心和對話的世界，這是我喜歡它的地方。所以，這集Tiger Sisters是由

to you by ReadAI. Yes. And it's not just another notetaker. It's like an AI co-pilot that can read, transcribe, and summarize your meeting notes. It reads the energy and vibe of your meetings to

ReadAI贊助的。是的。它不只是另一個筆記工具。它就像是一個AI副駕駛，可以閱讀、轉錄和總結你的會議筆記。它讀取你會議的能量和氛圍來

give you the next smart steps. I'm obsessed because it's like having a chief of staff that manages your inbox, your work meetings, basically your entire work life. Yeah. Last week I

給你下一個聰明的步驟。我很著迷，因為它就像是有一個幕僚長管理你的收件箱、你的工作會議，基本上是你整個工作生活。是的。上週我

missed a meeting and I was able to type what did I miss and readai was able to give me the top takeaways, the key points and also the sentiment. It was

錯過了一個會議，我能夠輸入我錯過了什麼，readai能夠給我最重要的要點、關鍵點以及情緒。這

kind of like magic and it works across Gmail, Teams, notion, Salesforce, Zoom, basically wherever you do your work. And you know me, I never give apps access to my Gmail because that's super private.

有點像魔法，它可以跨Gmail、Teams、notion、Salesforce、Zoom工作，基本上是你工作的任何地方。你知道我，我從不讓應用程式訪問我的Gmail，因為那是超級私密的。

But I actually made an exception for ReadAI because I personally know the founder, David Shim, because we used to work together at Snapchat. And you guys might remember, we actually interviewed

但我實際上為ReadAI破例了，因為我個人認識創始人David Shim，因為我們以前在Snapchat一起工作。你們可能記得，我們實際上採訪了

David Shim on season 3 of Tiger Sisters when he was talking about his new startup, which is actually ReadAI. And now Reed has over 4 million users. Wow.

David Shim在Tiger Sisters第三季，當他在談論他的新創業公司時，那實際上就是ReadAI。現在Reed有超過400萬用戶。哇。

>> Wow. And they're giving Tiger Sisters listeners a 30-day enterprise trial, which is worth $30 and that does not require a credit card to sign up. We don't know how long this 30-day free

哇。他們給Tiger Sisters聽眾30天的企業試用，價值30美元，不需要信用卡就可以註冊。我們不知道這個30天免費

offer is going to last, so if you're at all curious, try it right now. Go to www.read.ai/tigeristers for a free 30-day extended trial and you don't need to put in your credit card.

優惠會持續多久，所以如果你有一點好奇，現在就試試。去www.read.ai/tigersisters獲得免費的30天延長試用，你不需要輸入你的信用卡。

Sign up through our link because then they'll know that we sent you.

通過我們的鏈接註冊，因為這樣他們就會知道是我們介紹的你。

>> We're obsessed with ReadAI and we think you're going to love it, too.

我們對ReadAI很著迷，我們認為你也會喜歡它。

>> Um Susie, thank you so much for going through our values bridges with us. Um, we want to turn the conversation now to you and we talk about money, power, and

嗯Susie，非常感謝你和我們一起經歷我們的價值橋。嗯，我們現在想把對話轉向你，我們在Tiger Sisters播客上談論金錢、權力和

love on the Tiger Sisters podcast. And we want to go through some of those questions and, you know, go through your brain and learn a little bit more about

愛。我們想經歷一些那些問題，你知道的，經過你的大腦，了解更多關於

how you think about these things. >> I can't wait.

你如何思考這些事情。我迫不及待了。

>> Great. So, in Becoming You, you talked about how the process usually starts with some sort of crisis. Like, we talked about maybe a traumatic event, a quarter life crisis or midlife or some

太好了。所以，在《成為你》中，你談到這個過程通常從某種危機開始。像是，我們談到也許是一個創傷事件，一個四分之一人生危機或中年危機或某種

kind of reckoning. Why is it that it often takes a big seismic shift for this to happen?

清算。為什麼通常需要一個大的重大轉變才會發生這個？

>> Because we have become so habitualized to living B plus lives or B, you know, we can bump along in a life that's kind

因為我們已經變得如此習慣於過B+或B的生活，你知道的，我們可以在一個

of a B or B+ for a really long time and just keep telling ourselves something's going to change or it has to be that way and we just let it go. I mean, and

有點B或B+的生活中很長時間地磕磕絆絆，然後一直告訴自己會有什麼改變的或它必須是那樣的，然後我們就讓它過去。我的意思是，

sometimes we let it go until we're in our 50s or 60s, and then we say, "Wait a minute, the clock is actually ticking now, and I am going to fix it because B

有時候我們讓它過去直到我們50多歲或60多歲，然後我們說，「等等，時間確實在滴答作響了，我要去修復它，因為B

is not good enough. I want to just try." But other people go all the way to the end that way.

不夠好。我只想嘗試。」但其他人一直這樣走到最後。

>> And so sometimes we have to be shoved into the kind of self-examination that uh that we need. And so it usually is a crisis where people are fired or go

所以有時候我們必須被推入那種我們需要的自我審視。所以通常是一個危機，人們被解僱或

through a divorce or have a breakup of some kind that's and they'll say, "Wait, okay, I can't take it anymore. It's no longer B or B+. it's actually C or C

經歷離婚或有某種分手，他們會說，「等等，好，我不能再忍受了。它不再是B或B+了。它實際上是C或C

minus or D or it feels like F. And I mean I kind of troll on Reddit. There's all these feeds where people are like, I hate my life and everything and I like,

減或D或感覺像是F。我的意思是，我有點在Reddit上閒逛。有所有這些帖子，人們就像是，我討厭我的生活和一切，我就像是，

you know, just I have to hold myself back from typing in just do Becoming You because they would ban me. Um but but there are people who hit a crisis point

你知道的，我必須控制自己不輸入只要做《成為你》因為他們會封禁我。嗯，但是有些人達到了危機點

and that's when they start the work. And you know, my loving uh advice is to do it before that happens. Um and save yourself the time and and do it before

然後他們開始這個工作。你知道的，我的愛的建議是在那發生之前做。嗯，節省你的時間，在

it really becomes an absolute crisis. As a tiger sister, hearing you say a B or B plus life, I'm like like I need to clutch my pearl.

它真正變成一個絕對的危機之前做。作為一個Tiger Sister，聽你說一個B或B+的生活，我就像是我需要捂住我的珍珠。

>> I know. I know. But you know, people do it. Yeah.

我知道。我知道。但你知道的，人們確實這樣做。是的。

>> And they do it for a really really long time and it feels okay and they make a lot of excuses.

他們這樣做了很長很長時間，感覺還可以，他們找很多藉口。

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think I was living a B+ life for a long time. And I didn't realize it because there were so many as aspects of it that from the outside

是的。是的。我的意思是，我認為我過了很長時間的B+生活。我沒有意識到，因為它的很多方面從外面

looked like an A or an A+ life. like all of the, you know, just like, oh, like you look like you're in a beautiful couple, like you have this incredibly

看起來像是一個A或A+的生活。像是所有的，你知道的，就像是，哦，你看起來像是一對漂亮的情侶，你有這個令人難以置信

highowered job, like you live in LA, like there's just so many things that >> I think I almost let society or societal expectations like dictate and like tell

高端的工作，你住在洛杉磯，就像是有這麼多事情，我認為我幾乎讓社會或社會期望來決定並告訴

me that I was living an A life or an A+ life. And it wasn't until I'm actually really like grateful now for that sort of like crisis moment because it's like

我我正在過一個A或A+的生活。直到我現在實際上真的很感謝那種危機時刻，因為就像

you said it's not until you like sort of like crash that you're like wait why was I on this road in the first place? Like why was I driving down this road? Like

你說的，直到你有點像是崩潰了，你才會像是等等，我一開始為什麼在這條路上？我為什麼開在這條路上？像是

it would have been >> a >> it would have kind of been like a really underwhelming life that was like not an expression of my true self.

這會是一個真的相當平淡的生活，不是我真實自我的表達。

>> That's right. You would have been around 45 and one day you would have been found yourself in your car crying uncontrollably >> and you would have said what have I

沒錯。你會在45歲左右，有一天你會發現自己在車裡無法控制地哭泣，你會說我做了什麼

done? And and so you do have to kind of crash. Sometimes the outside world is the one confirming to us our life is perfect and we know inside and we've got

？所以你確實必須有點崩潰。有時候外面的世界是確認我們生活完美的那個，而我們內心知道，我們有

like this kind of uh >> uh and then you we hear all this confirming stuff. Oh, you got it all.

像是這種，嗯，然後我們聽到所有這些確認的東西。哦，你擁有一切。

And it comes from our friends and our parents and they are just checking the boxes for us. But we know how much we are actually living our the life we

它來自我們的朋友和父母，他們只是為我們打勾。但我們知道我們實際上多麼在實踐我們

want. We know because when we're living it, we feel exquisitely alive >> and that is so good. Yeah, >> but if you've never experienced it, you

想要的生活。我們知道，因為當我們實踐它時，我們會感到極度活躍，那太好了。是的，但如果你從來沒有體驗過它，你

don't want to go back and get it because you don't even know what it is to begin with. So, >> a lot of stuff gets in the way of us going big.

不想回去得到它，因為你甚至不知道它是什麼開始。所以，很多東西阻礙我們去追求更大的。

>> Yeah. We had an episode recently where Gene and I talked about settling, >> like how do you know if you're settling?

是的。我們最近有一集Jean和我談論了安於現狀，像是你怎麼知道你是否在安於現狀？

>> I saw that episode. It was great. And I thought, wow, this is all about the four horsemen of of values production. If you want to know uh what which one of the uh

我看了那集。太棒了。我想，哇，這都是關於價值觀毀滅的四騎士。如果你想知道哪一個

horsemen is taking away your life, we actually have a free quiz you can take.

騎士正在奪走你的生活，我們實際上有一個免費的測驗你可以做。

It takes two seconds and it will tell you, oh, it's expectations, it's expedience or it's all four and it settling is real.

只需要兩秒鐘，它會告訴你，哦，是期望，是權宜之計，還是全部四個，安於現狀是真實的。

>> Yeah. >> So, Susie, on this podcast, we talk a lot about balancing ambition and fulfillment. So, when it comes to money, what do you think people most often get

是的。所以，Susie，在這個播客上，我們談論很多關於平衡野心和滿足感。所以，說到錢，你認為人們最常

wrong about the connection between wealth and happiness? And like there's so many you have so many terms within the values bridge. It's like >> it's a whole industrial complex around

在財富和幸福之間的聯繫上犯什麼錯誤？像是有這麼多，你在價值橋中有這麼多術語。這像是一個完整的產業

this. Okay. So, first of all, can I just take issue with the word balance, which I don't >> actually believe in because it suggests that you should have the same amount of

圍繞這個。好。所以，首先，我能對平衡這個詞提出異議嗎？我實際上不相信這個，因為它暗示你應該擁有相同數量的

everything. You should have, you know, work and your personal life should be balanced. But who's who's deciding what that balance is? You know, that you should have everything should be in

一切。你應該有，你知道的，工作和個人生活應該平衡。但誰在決定那個平衡是什麼？你知道的，一切都應該

balance. Like, uh, you know, I'm I want to work all the time and I want tons of money, okay? And I don't and I and who's

平衡。像是，嗯，你知道的，我想要一直工作，我想要很多錢，好嗎？而且我不，而且誰

to tell me I should be having more fun.

來告訴我應該有更多樂趣。

Go take a hike. I don't want to. Yeah, >> I don't want to go water skiing this weekend. This is this is And also that's like balance my so I worry about people

去爬山。我不想。是的，我不想這週末去滑水。這是這是，而且那像是平衡，我所以我擔心人們

believing that there's some kind of um perfect for everybody kind of balance like you should be doing more of this or doing more of that. It's actually super personal

相信有某種對每個人都完美的那種平衡，像是你應該多做這個或多做那個。它實際上是超級個人的

>> and um Jensen Hang of Nvidia was asked recently how's your work life balance and he said I love my work life balance.

而且嗯NVIDIA的Jensen Huang最近被問到你的工作生活平衡怎麼樣，他說我喜歡我的工作生活平衡。

I work all the time and I mean I was like preach. Yeah. Now I get it that that's not for everybody and I don't want people to judge me about my work

我一直在工作，我的意思是我就像是說得好。是的。現在我知道那不是每個人的，我不希望人們對我的工作

life balance just like I don't want to judge anybody and like of I have four adult children their view about work and and balance is different than mine and I

生活平衡做出判斷，就像我不想對任何人做出判斷，我有四個成年子女，他們對工作和平衡的看法和我的不同，我

say that's perfectly fine it's groovy live your values live your life but understand there are consequences if one of your top values is affluence uh it's

說那完全好，很酷，實踐你的價值觀，過你的生活，但理解有後果。如果你的首要價值觀之一是富裕，

you know and you want to also have a lot of udimonia you're going to have to figure that out because they don't typically track together unless you have inherited wealth.

你知道的，而且你還想要很多幸福感，你必須弄清楚那個，因為它們通常不會一起追蹤，除非你有繼承的財富。

>> I think that the thing you've got to figure out is not how to have balance, but you've got to figure out what is your balance.

我認為你必須弄清楚的不是如何擁有平衡，而是你必須弄清楚什麼是你的平衡。

>> Yeah. >> You know, how much do you want of each one of these?

是的。你知道的，你想要這些每一個多少？

>> Uh this is why I like the rank ordering because sometimes people say, "Yep, that's it. I can't lie anymore. I want I want luminance. I want fame. I want

嗯，這就是為什麼我喜歡排序，因為有時候人們會說，「是的，就是這樣。我不能再撒謊了。我想要光輝。我想要名譽。我想要

money. I want achievement." And look, oh, all the way down here is udeonia.

錢。我想要成就。」看，哦，一直到這裡是幸福感。

I've been lying about this to everybody. And I want the permission to say to people, "I'm not playing with you this weekend. I'm going into work cuz I like it.

我一直在向每個人撒謊關於這個。我想要允許對人們說，「我這週末不和你玩。我要去上班因為我喜歡。

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And you we got to give ourselves permission to have the balance we want to have.

是的。是的。我們必須給自己許可擁有我們想要的平衡。

>> Our definition of it. >> I just had a light bulb moment right now.

我們對它的定義。我剛剛有了一個靈光一現的時刻。

>> Good. >> That um Let me see if I can process this live. But I think it has to do with my belonging being literally my last value.

好。那嗯讓我看看我能不能現場處理這個。但我認為這和我的歸屬感是字面上的最後一個價值觀有關。

Like when I'm like scrolling on Instagram and I see people's stories of like, oh my god, they had this bachelorette with like 20 women there.

像是當我滑Instagram看到人們的故事，像是天哪，她們有這個單身女郎派對有像是20個女人在那裡。

I'm like, oh that's nice. Like wonder what that must be like to be like surrounded and have that community.

我就像是，哦那很好。像是想知道被包圍和擁有那個社區必須是什麼樣的感覺。

for a second. But if we go back to that, that's not how I want to live my life.

一秒鐘。但如果我們回到那個，那不是我想要的生活方式。

>> Before social media, you wouldn't even seen those pictures, so you wouldn't have cared. I mean, I think it's social media puts it in your face, but

在社交媒體之前，你甚至不會看到那些照片，所以你不會在乎。我的意思是，我認為社交媒體把它放在你面前，但

belonging is not a high value of yours.

歸屬感不是你的高價值觀。

It doesn't mean that you don't want some of it, but you want it a lot less than some other things. Like radius is your top value. You would trade off clearly

這不意味著你不想要一些，但你比其他一些事情想要的少得多。像是半徑是你的首要價值觀。你顯然會

having high impact work with hanging out with a bunch of bridesmaids.

用高影響力的工作來交換和一群伴娘在一起。

>> Okay, it's my daughter is number one radius. She's a total person who wants to change the world in a lot of different ways. She's about to get married. No bridesmaids. Okay. Let alone

好，我女兒第一位是半徑。她是一個完全想要在很多不同方面改變世界的人。她即將結婚。沒有伴娘。好的。更不用說

no bridesmaids parties. No bridesmaids. Yeah. Okay. I mean there it just that's not how who they are. And her husband, her soon to be husband also has high

沒有伴娘派對。沒有伴娘。是的。好的。我的意思是，這就是他們是誰。她的丈夫，她即將成為的丈夫也有高

radius. It's the most you know this is a wedding that's actually about their value of radius. I mean it's about and everybody there is going to be like

半徑。這是最，你知道的，這是一個真正關於他們半徑價值觀的婚禮。我的意思是它是關於，而且那裡的每個人都會

them. It's going to be it's going to be quite the event that there's not there's no partying beforehand. There's no like, you know, bachelor party. Are you kidding me? That they find that very,

像他們。它會是，它會是相當的活動，沒有事先的派對。沒有像是，你知道的，單身派對。你在開玩笑嗎？他們覺得那非常，

you know, that's just not who they are.

你知道的，那就不是他們是誰。

>> Yeah. >> Right. So, >> it's it's not who I am actually. And I don't know why. I mean, like, yeah, >> because there's so there's societal

是的。對。所以，它實際上不是我是誰。我不知道為什麼。我的意思是，像是，是的，因為有社會

culture, but now you can just hold up your values bridge results and say, "Any other low lowing people here like me?" Yeah. You know, so >> Okay. So, our next question on money is,

文化，但現在你可以舉起你的價值橋結果說，「有其他像我這樣低歸屬感的人嗎？」是的。你知道的，所以，好，我們關於錢的下一個問題是，

if you could sit down with your younger self, what's one piece of money advice you wish you had known earlier? There's two great pieces of money advice that I

如果你能和年輕時的自己坐下來，有一條關於錢的建議你希望早點知道？有兩條很好的關於錢的建議我

would love to share. The first is there's no last best deal. This has saved me from so many stupid purchases, so many stupid decisions is um the whole

想要分享。第一個是沒有最後的最佳交易。這讓我避免了很多愚蠢的購買，很多愚蠢的決定，

idea of a person who's trying to get you to buy something is to get you into a frenzy where you think it's the last best deal.

整個想法是一個想讓你買東西的人會讓你陷入狂熱，讓你認為這是最後的最佳交易。

>> I mean, that's what advertising does. That's what realtors do. That's what all sorts of people do. and you have to sort of say, "Nope, there actually is no last

我的意思是，這就是廣告做的。這就是房地產經紀人做的。這就是各種各樣的人做的。你必須對自己說，「不，實際上沒有最後的

best deal. There's always going to be another deal." And and if you're a person who's interested in investing, the whole idea of the people trying to sell you the stock or whatever it is

最佳交易。總會有另一個交易。」而且如果你是一個對投資感興趣的人，試圖向你賣股票或任何你投資的東西的人的整個想法

that you're investing in is to make you feel like it's the last best deal. And so this refrain, there's no last best deal, has saved me so many wrong turns. Um especially

是讓你覺得這是最後的最佳交易。所以這個口頭禪，沒有最後的最佳交易，讓我避免了這麼多錯誤的轉彎。特別是

around real estate, >> right? There's never going to be a better house than this. It's never going to be at this. And you know what? There is. there's going to be another house

關於房地產，對吧？永遠不會有比這更好的房子了。它永遠不會是這樣。你知道嗎？會有。會有另一棟房子

and there's going to be another good deal. So, that's very very centering.

而且會有另一個好交易。所以，那是非常非常讓人平靜的。

The second one uh piece of advice um I think I learned it from watching people around me and people now tell me it's one of the most distinctive characteristics about how I think about

第二條建議，我認為我是從觀察我週圍的人學到的，人們現在告訴我這是我思考方式中最獨特的特徵之一

money is um this is to just to fight back against the sun cost fallacy and just to cut your losses. I made a mistake. I made a financial mistake. Get

關於錢，這就是對抗沉沒成本謬誤，只是止損。我犯了一個錯誤。我犯了一個財務錯誤。出來。

out. Get out now. And so this has happened with real estate. I one time bought a house. I thought it was the right house and it I was there for two

現在出來。這在房地產上發生過。我有一次買了一棟房子。我以為它是正確的房子，我在那裡待了兩

years. I thought this is in the wrong place and it's the house doesn't feel right to me for a bunch of different reasons. I had fixed it up and poured

年。我想這是在錯誤的地方，房子因為很多不同的原因對我來說感覺不對。我已經裝修了它並投入了

some real money into it. And I like remember calling my friend saying, "I'm selling this house." Who they'd all visited it and they were like, "How can

一些真正的錢。我記得打電話給我的朋友說，「我要賣這棟房子。」他們都參觀過它，他們就像是，「你怎麼能

you do that?" And I said, "Because I made a mistake. I'm out." And I may take a hit, but there's no point pouring more money into this pit.

這樣做？」我說，「因為我犯了一個錯誤。我出來了。」我可能會受到打擊，但把更多錢投入這個坑沒有意義。

>> And so I think sunk cost goes across so many different financial decisions. Um, and it goes into sort of job decisions as well. And so cutting your losses and

所以我認為沉沒成本跨越了很多不同的財務決策。嗯，它也涉及工作決策。所以止損和

the ability to openly say, "I made a mistake. I own it. Hello world. I made a mistake. I own it. And then move on. I I think with my children, I've taught them

能夠公開說，「我犯了一個錯誤。我承認。全世界你好。我犯了一個錯誤。我承認。」然後繼續前進。我認為對我的孩子們，我已經教了他們

that. And when I see them make wise decisions, financial decisions, I think, okay, that's one thing I taught them.

這個。當我看到他們做出明智的決定，財務決定時，我想，好吧，那是我教他們的一件事。

>> Yeah, that second one is so powerful and I think it's a lot harder than what you give yourself credit for because >> we are wired. I mean, this is what the

是的，那第二個太強大了，我認為這比你給自己的信任要難得多，因為我們是有這種傾向的。我的意思是，這就是

work of decision scientists would show you. We are wired to have some cost and uh uh love for just pouring more money on our problems thinking we're saving

決策科學家的工作會告訴你的。我們天生有一些成本，嗯，喜歡把更多錢投入我們的問題，認為我們在保全

face we can fix it. It is so common >> uh that to fight it is a discipline but it's true about relationships too.

面子，我們可以修復它。這太常見了，對抗它是一種紀律，但對關係也是如此。

>> Yeah. And it feels like in a way like you're going against yourself because you had made this decision. You had done so many things following that decision to

是的。感覺有點像是你在對抗自己，因為你已經做了這個決定。你做了這麼多事情來跟隨那個決定來

>> reinforce that that that was the right decision. So then like changing and doing the opposite of that or reversing it, you're like, who am I? It's like almost like you have to

強化那是正確的決定。所以然後像是改變並做相反的事或逆轉它，你就像是，我是誰？這幾乎像是你必須

>> But it's a lot of badass thing to do.

但這是一件很厲害的事。

>> I mean, it really is. It's like to really own your mistake and publicly say to everybody, look, I made this mistake.

我的意思是，真的是。就像是真正承認你的錯誤並公開對每個人說，看，我犯了這個錯誤。

I I took the wrong job. I moved to the wrong city. I I mean, you know, I invested in this wrong thing. I'm getting out. I'm getting out now. And

我接受了錯誤的工作。我搬到了錯誤的城市。我我的意思是，你知道的，我投資了這個錯誤的東西。我要出來。我現在要出來。而且

I'm going to take my hit and I'm going to move right on with the lesson learned is so empowering. And the earlier you learn to do that, the better. It's really powerful.

我要承受我的打擊，我要帶著學到的教訓繼續前進是如此賦能。你越早學會這樣做，越好。這真的很強大。

>> Yeah. >> And at the end of the day, I think when people see that, they respect you more for it, not less.

是的。而且在一天結束時，我認為當人們看到那個，他們更尊重你，而不是更少。

>> And you actually sort of get this incredible kind of rush off of it yourself, and saying like, I did that cuz you realize how hard it is. Look,

而且你實際上會從中得到這種難以置信的興奮感，然後說像是，我做到了，因為你意識到這有多難。看，

it's all part of the wisdom project. That's what I say about my mistakes, gathering wisdom here.

這都是智慧項目的一部分。這就是我對我的錯誤說的，在這裡收集智慧。

>> That wait, I'm going to I'm going to adopt that. I'm part of the wisdom.

那等等，我要採用那個。我是智慧的一部分。

>> All part of the wisdom project covers up all your mistakes. I mean I and they are that is how I have gotten my wisdom not

智慧項目的全部掩蓋了你所有的錯誤。我的意思是，那就是我如何獲得我的智慧，不是

from what I did right you know what I did wrong of which there's a long list >> and then okay last note about this I feel like that there's no last best deal

從我做對的，你知道的，我做錯的，其中有很長的清單，然後好，關於這個的最後一點，我覺得沒有最後的最佳交易

I feel like that actually can also be applied to love and romance >> absolutely >> I mean absolutely you because when you think this is might be the last guy or girl you settle

我覺得那實際上也可以應用於愛和浪漫，絕對，我的意思是絕對你，因為當你認為這可能是最後的男人或女人你就安於現狀

>> okay and then you say look nobody else is coming along I was I was friends with a woman she was in a relationship for a

好，然後你說看，沒有其他人會來了。我和一個女人是朋友，她在一段關係中待了

really long time she was 55 and he was terrible to her. He He was terrible to her. And I said to her, "Why are you staying?" And she said, "Who else is

很長時間，她55歲了，他對她很糟糕。他對她很糟糕。我對她說，「為什麼你還待著？」她說，「還會有誰

there going to be?" >> And she said, "I just got to he's going to be the best guy I can get." And it was it was disaster to see the

？」她說，「我只是必須，他會是我能得到的最好的男人。」這是一場災難，看著這段

relationship. Well, I would go home to my husband and say, "One day he's going to leave her for a younger woman." And you know, she should have cut her losses

關係。嗯，我會回家對我丈夫說，「有一天他會為了一個年輕女人離開她。」你知道的，她應該止損

and so forth. And that is exactly what happened. And she actually now has happily found somebody else. And so it all worked out. It took a while, but we

等等。那正是發生的事。她現在實際上已經幸福地找到了其他人。所以一切都好了。花了一段時間，但我們

do this in relationships all the time. and we say, "Look, I'm just not meeting that many other people. This is the last best deal." If you're settling, as you

在關係中一直這樣做。我們說，「看，我只是沒有遇到那麼多其他人。這是最後的最佳交易。」如果你在安於現狀，就像你

have said before on the podcast, >> uh, that never leads anywhere. It never leads anywhere good. It just does not.

之前在播客上說的，那永遠不會有好結果。它永遠不會有好結果。它就是不會。

>> There's no last best deal. >> There's no there's no last best deal.

沒有最後的最佳交易。沒有沒有最後的最佳交易。

>> I'm going to be repeating this. >> It's great. T-shirts, right? We It should be our mantra in the morning. We like wake up and look in the mirror.

我要重複這個。太好了。T恤，對吧？我們這應該是我們早上的座右銘。我們像是醒來看著鏡子。

>> There's no last. >> There's no last best deal >> to ourselves. I love that.

沒有最後的。沒有最後的最佳交易，對自己說。我喜歡這個。

>> I love it. Should we jump into love?

我喜歡它。我們應該跳到愛嗎？

>> Yeah, let's jump into love. Okay, >> you can ask me about love. Okay, I know that it's a sensitive tone, but I I know

是的，讓我們跳到愛。好，你可以問我關於愛的問題。好，我知道這是一個敏感的話題，但我

I you can go ahead and ask me about it.

我你可以繼續問我關於這個。

Don't be afraid if you talk about um money, power, and love. Don't be afraid to ask me about it. It's okay.

不要害怕，如果你談論金錢、權力和愛。不要害怕問我關於這個。沒關係。

>> Okay. So, Susie, you and your late husband Jack >> both had such storied careers in the professional realm. I'm sure you get this, you know, this question a lot, and

好。所以，Susie，你和你已故的丈夫Jack在專業領域都有如此輝煌的職業生涯。我相信你經常被問到這個問題，

this was long before you you got married. So, how did you balance being partners in life while also collaborating on work on such a high level?

這是在你結婚很久以前。所以，你如何平衡作為人生伴侶同時也在如此高水平上合作工作？

>> Yeah, it was intense. Yeah. >> I mean, it was really intense because we lived together, loved together, raised the children together, and worked together.

是的，很緊張。是的。我的意思是，真的很緊張，因為我們一起生活，一起愛，一起撫養孩子，一起工作。

>> Um, and the way we did it was um we had very similar values. We talked constantly. You've never met two chatty more chatty people than us. I mean, it

嗯，我們做到的方式是我們有非常相似的價值觀。我們不斷地交談。你從來沒有見過兩個比我們更健談的人。我的意思是，

was we we were both very verbal and so we could be talking about things all the time, but we also knew our lanes and this was huge. Like I was never CEO of

我們都非常善於言辭，所以我們可以一直談論事情，但我們也知道我們的領域，這很重要。像是我從來不是

GE. I never managed 400,000 people and he had never written a, you know, book after book after book. He had never edited. He had never um done a a lot of

GE的CEO。我從來沒有管理過40萬人，他也從來沒有寫過，你知道的，一本又一本的書。他從來沒有編輯過。他從來沒有做過很多

the stuff that I knew how to do. and we agreed that we deeply respected each other's areas of expertise and we let each other be good at what they were good at

我知道怎麼做的事情。我們同意我們深深尊重彼此的專業領域，我們讓彼此擅長他們擅長的東西

>> and we believed that we would really learn from each other. And he had like the I mean I think what really helped was he had the deepest respect for me.

我們相信我們會真正從彼此身上學習。他有像是我的意思是我認為真正有幫助的是他對我有最深的尊重。

He used to say to me all the time, "You're the smartest person I've ever met." And I'd be like, "That cannot possibly be true, Jack." And so he

他經常對我說，「你是我見過的最聰明的人。」我會說，「那不可能是真的，Jack。」所以他

respected me and I really respected him and that helped a lot. But, you know, I think that at the end of the day, he had very high agency as a value. He

尊重我，我真的尊重他，那幫助很大。但，你知道的，我認為在一天結束時，他有非常高的主導性作為一個價值觀。他

>> he was used to being a CEO. He drove every bus. He was in charge. And I have very low agency. I'm super collaborative. I am always kind of like

他習慣了當CEO。他開每一輛車。他負責。我有非常低的主導性。我超級合作。我總是有點像是

I think every idea should be heard. I love consensus. This is all kind of part of my personality. And I think it was very fortunate that he had high agency

我認為每個想法都應該被聽到。我喜歡共識。這都是我個性的一部分。我認為他有高主導性很幸運

and I had low. I think in in our marriage, had both of us been very high agency, it would have there would have been a slightly different story. And I

而我有低的。我認為在我們的婚姻中，如果我們兩個都有很高的主導性，會有一個稍微不同的故事。我

just I had this um technique when we disagreed, which is often shocking to other women when I mention it, but I did it for a really long time. And then one

只是我有這個嗯技巧當我們不同意時，這經常讓其他女性震驚當我提到它時，但我做了很長時間。然後有一

time I mentioned it in passing and u it freaked out the group of women I was with. So juicy. Okay. So when he started saying something that I

次我順便提到它，它嚇壞了我和的那群女性。太有料了。好。所以當他開始說一些我

really disagreed with my inside my head my mantra was maybe he's right >> and I didn't get my dukes up and I didn't like start to disagree. I just

非常不同意的事情時，在我腦海裡我的座右銘是也許他是對的，我沒有舉起我的拳頭，我沒有開始不同意。我只是

thought maybe he's right. I'm just going to hear him out with the assumption he might be right. And so sometimes he'd come at me with like really like we're

想也許他是對的。我只是要聽他說，假設他可能是對的。所以有時候他會像是帶著真的像是我們

not going to X Y and Z vacation. I've changed my mind. We're taking the kids to blank. And my immediate visceral reaction would be something like that's

不會去X Y和Z度假。我改變主意了。我們要帶孩子們去空白。我立即的本能反應會是像是那

the worst idea I ever heard. it's wrong on so many levels. And then I would immediately transfer into maybe he's right and I would say why do you say

是我聽過的最糟糕的主意。它在很多層面上都是錯的。然後我會立即轉換到也許他是對的，我會說你為什麼這樣說

that and I would have this very open mind about it and then he would pour it all out and I would hear him and sometimes he was right but other times

然後我會對此有非常開放的心態，然後他會把一切都倒出來，我會聽他的，有時候他是對的，但其他時候

because I had a really good attitude non-defensive attitude about it. I would say okay well here's where we differ and I would go through the ways that we

因為我有一個非常好的態度，非防禦性的態度。我會說好吧，這是我們不同的地方，我會經歷我們

>> that we differed. And a lot of times he would say oh god I never thought of that Susie. All right. But it was my lack of um defensiveness that allowed those

不同的方式。很多時候他會說哦天啊我從來沒想過那個Susie。好吧。但正是我缺乏防禦性讓那些

conversations to happen. And I think it feels like, you know, okay, you know, to use a word that sets people's heads on fire.

對話得以發生。我認為感覺像是，你知道的，好吧，你知道的，用一個會讓人腦袋著火的詞。

>> It sounds kind of surrendered, right? Like the surrendered wives are always like, "Whatever you say, dear, is right." But I just went in with the supposition that he loved me.

聽起來有點像是順從，對吧？像是順從的妻子總是像是，「親愛的你說什麼都對。」但我只是帶著他愛我的假設進去。

>> I trusted him. Um he wanted what was right for us in the marriage and he never hurt me and that maybe he was right. M

我信任他。嗯他想要對我們的婚姻正確的東西，他從來沒有傷害過我，也許他是對的。

>> and it's also it's not like we didn't disagree but when he came at me with at me I always started from a stance that I wanted to hear what he was saying.

而且也不是說我們沒有不同意，但當他朝我來時，我總是從一個想聽他說什麼的立場開始。

>> Wow. When I hear that two things come to mind. One is like the immense amount of self-regulation because like the way that you described it it's just like of

哇。當我聽到這個時，兩件事浮現在腦海。一是像是巨大的自我調節，因為像是你描述的方式，就像是

course like everyone's first instinct is to be like what are you talking about?

當然像是每個人的第一本能是像是你在說什麼？

Also coming from a person where like I feel like the three of us are often right and like we we don't like you know posit our our opinions

還有來自一個像是我覺得我們三個經常是對的，而且像是我們我們不像是你知道的發表我們的意見

that are not well researched right we're not positive people right >> so yeah the self-regulation >> to like have that immediate thought and then to stop yourself

那些沒有經過充分研究的，對，我們不是積極的人，對，所以是的，自我調節，像是有那個立即的想法然後阻止自己

>> and then yeah to bring like a new perspective and then I think the second thing is um >> assuming good intent >> yes >> I think that's So deepen it's huge. It's

然後是的，帶來一個新的視角，然後我認為第二件事是嗯假設善意，是的，我認為那太深入了，太重要了。它

actually just as a life lesson changes everything >> and I think I um I learned that a lot from Jack. He was really that way. Jack just he had you know that cliche you

實際上只是作為一個人生教訓改變了一切，我認為我嗯從Jack那裡學到了很多。他真的是那樣的。Jack只是他有你知道那句陳詞濫調你

know a stranger's a friend you just haven't met. He totally thought the whole world was just waiting to be his friend. He like went out into the world

知道陌生人是你還沒遇到的朋友。他完全認為整個世界都在等著成為他的朋友。他像是每天出去進入這個世界

every day like where are all the friends I can meet? I remember going to a party one time where we didn't know anyone and he said could anything be more exciting

像是我能遇到的所有朋友在哪裡？我記得有一次去一個派對我們誰都不認識，他說還有什麼比這更令人興奮的

and this was so his personality and I agree. I like like meeting people too.

這就是他的個性，我同意。我也喜歡認識人。

Um, but assuming good intentions can change the trajectory of your life and your career. It can. And you know what?

嗯，但假設善意可以改變你人生和職業的軌跡。它可以。你知道嗎？

Sometimes you get burnt. >> Sometimes people don't have good intentions, but many, many more times you end up having relationships and conversations that you wouldn't have had

有時候你會被燒傷。有時候人們沒有善意，但更多更多次你最終會有你不會有的關係和對話

if you went in with your dukes up.

如果你舉起你的拳頭進去。

>> So, okay, Susie, you recently said on your podcast that you are ready to go on and write the next part of your story.

所以，好，Susie，你最近在你的播客上說你準備好繼續寫你故事的下一部分。

>> Do you remember saying that? >> Yeah.

你記得說那個嗎？是的。

>> We're going to dive right in. Okay, go for it.

我們要直接進入。好，來吧。

>> Do you remember the next thing you said?

你記得你接下來說了什麼嗎？

>> I thought I might go on a date.

我想我可能會去約會。

>> Yeah, >> I DID IT. >> OH MY GOD.

是的，我做了。天哪。

>> We went on a date. >> Can we talk about it? Can we talk about it?

我們去約會了。我們可以談談嗎？我們可以談談嗎？

>> Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, here's the terrible truth, right? Is the date reminded me about how much I love my husband. So, it was >> Is that terrible?

是的。是的。我認為，你知道的，這是可怕的真相，對吧？約會讓我想起了我多麼愛我的丈夫。所以，這是糟糕嗎？

>> Yeah. Okay. >> It's terrible. Okay. Like, nothing to recommend widowhood. Okay. But I would say that it I had a couple of days afterwards where I was sad because he

是的。好吧。這很糟糕。好吧。像是，沒有什麼值得推薦守寡的。好吧。但我會說之後我有幾天很傷心，因為他

was a perfectly good guy. Um, a very nice guy. And actually, we had some things in common. really some things really in common. Like we both like

是一個非常好的人。嗯，一個非常好的人。實際上，我們有一些共同點。真的有一些共同點。像是我們都喜歡

every single day like uh get the same um uh uh feed from this like devotional and we both read that one. And so we had some serious things in common and and it

每天都從這個像是靈修的地方得到相同的推送，我們都讀那個。所以我們有一些認真的共同點，而且

was a perfectly lovely um conversation, but sort of two hours into it, he said to me, "I do not think you're ready." Um and I said, "Yeah." And he said, "I just

是一個非常愉快的對話，但大約兩個小時後，他對我說，「我不認為你準備好了。」嗯我說，「是的。」他說，「我只是

don't think you're at a place in your life where you're ready for this. Are you ready?" He said, "Are you ready to be loved by a man besides Jack?" And I

不認為你在人生的一個準備好這個的階段。你準備好了嗎？」他說，「你準備好被除了Jack以外的男人愛嗎？」我

thought, "How astute." I thought like, you know, he's really smart. And I said, "I actually don't know the answer to that question." He said, "Well, why don't you give it some thought?"

想，「多敏銳。」我想像是，你知道的，他真的很聰明。我說，「我其實不知道那個問題的答案。」他說，「嗯，你為什麼不想想呢？」

>> Wait, are you already friends? >> No, I we had but we knew people in common. Okay. And but he knew enough in those two hours because I actually

等等，你們已經是朋友了嗎？不，我我們但我們有共同認識的人。好的。但他在那兩個小時裡知道得夠多了，因為我實際上

realized that I referenced Jack like 30 times on the date. Um, and so it's kind of different when you've not been divorced, right? Because sometimes when you've been divorced, you're ready to

意識到我在約會中提到了Jack像是30次。嗯，所以當你沒有離婚過時會有點不同，對吧？因為有時候當你離婚後，你準備好

start again and you're like turning the page. But for me, like I lost the person I loved. Yeah.

重新開始，你像是翻開新的一頁。但對我來說，我失去了我愛的人。是的。

>> So, I did it. I did go on a date and I mean I'm not adverse to another one, you know. Um not with that person because he's right, but um I my I

所以，我做了。我確實去約會了，我的意思是我不反對另一次約會，你知道的。嗯不是和那個人，因為他是對的，但嗯我

have this kind of uh this desire with at my daughter's wedding to dance with somebody besides like my son, which is really >> I like I was at a I was at a wedding

有這種嗯這種渴望在我女兒的婚禮上和某人跳舞，不是像是我兒子，這真的，我像是我在一個我

with him and Eva the other day and like I know they don't want me dancing with them. They want to dance with each other. Like who wants mom in the in the

和他和Eva在一起的婚禮前幾天，我知道他們不想我和他們一起跳舞。他們想和彼此跳舞。誰想要媽媽在

group, right? And then I was at another wedding and I was there with my um daughter and her husband and they said, "Let's dance." And I said, "I don't want

那個群體裡，對吧？然後我在另一個婚禮上，我和我女兒和她丈夫在一起，他們說，「我們跳舞吧。」我說，「我不想

to do that to you." So I would kind of like to dance at the So that's It's not like I want to get married again, but it would be fun to have somebody to

對你們這樣。」所以我有點想在婚禮上跳舞。所以那就是，這不是說我想再次結婚，但有個人可以

>> dance with. >> Yeah, I agree. Yeah, >> I love dancing.

跳舞會很有趣。是的，我同意。是的，我喜歡跳舞。

>> Yeah. And I like So do I.

是的。我也喜歡。

>> Yeah, I miss that a lot. No, I know Jack and I used to dance all the time.

是的，我非常想念那個。不，我知道Jack和我以前一直跳舞。

>> I know. >> You want the likey feeling?

我知道。你想要那種喜歡的感覺？

>> Yeah, it was really fun. Yeah, >> that I miss.

是的，那真的很有趣。是的，我想念那個。

>> Mhm. Well, I mean, you did the brave thing.

嗯。嗯，我的意思是，你做了勇敢的事。

>> It felt brave. In fact, the morning of I tried to cancel.

感覺很勇敢。事實上，那天早上我試圖取消。

>> Yeah. But, uh, the I called the friend who did the fix up and I said, I think I got and she said, "Nope, you can't do

是的。但，嗯，我打電話給做媒的朋友，我說，我想我得了，她說，「不，你不能這樣做

that. Not going to do that for you." >> Um, and so I did it. It as I was walking toward it and I saw him on the sidewalk,

那個。不會為你那樣做。」嗯，所以我做了。當我走向那裡，我在人行道上看到他時，

I was literally the inside of my head, I was saying like, "Turn around, leave, leave, leave, leave, leave, run, run, run, run." I mean, I was It felt really

我腦子裡真的在說像是，「轉身，離開，離開，離開，離開，離開，跑，跑，跑，跑。」我的意思是，我感覺真的很

brave. I kind of hated it. But then the minute we said hello, I was like, I can have a conversation with anybody. I'm just gonna do, right?

勇敢。我有點討厭它。但當我們說了你好的那一刻，我就像是，我可以和任何人交談。我就做吧，對吧？

>> I didn't give him the values bridge. I did not. But I uh but I was doing it in my head. Um and but I So

我沒有給他做價值橋測試。我沒有。但我在腦子裡做了。嗯但我所以

>> I'm not adverse to it's not like I feel like, okay, never again. I'm never going to do that again because hope springs eternal. But I, you know, it's hard,

我不反對，這不像是我覺得，好，永遠不再。我永遠不會再那樣做了，因為希望永存。但我，你知道的，這很難，

right? Because I had a great mar I had a great great great marriage. Yeah. And so it's like a very hard act to follow.

對吧？因為我有一段很棒的婚姻。我有一段很棒很棒很棒的婚姻。是的。所以它像是一個很難跟上的行為。

Well, I hope you're proud of yourself. >> Thank you. Truly, >> it's kind of like you were saying before, it's gathering wisdom.

嗯，我希望你為自己感到驕傲。謝謝你。真的，這有點像是你之前說的，這是在收集智慧。

>> Yes. Right. >> Yeah. Okay. I'll I'll take that. Maybe I'll say I'm a little proud of myself. I mean, people have been It's been six years, right? So, um people have been

是的。對。是的。好吧。我接受那個。也許我會說我有點為自己驕傲。我的意思是，人們已經，已經六年了，對吧？所以，嗯人們已經

pushing me this towards this. I mean, I have a girlfriend who was widowed recently and like six months later she went on her first date and I was like, "How you doing that?"

推動我朝這個方向。我的意思是，我有一個女性朋友最近守寡了，像是六個月後她去了她的第一次約會，我就像是，「你怎麼做到的？」

>> And she's like, "You got to get out there, Susie." And I was like, "You do?" I mean, but >> I mean, you're kind of building an

她就像是，「你必須出去，Susie。」我就像是，「你必須嗎？」我的意思是，但我的意思是，你現在也在建立一個

empire now, too. So, you have all these different, you know what I mean?

帝國了。所以，你有所有這些不同的，你懂我的意思嗎？

>> Well, I mean, I'm building a business.

嗯，我的意思是，我在建立一個商業。

Okay. And I love building a business. I've always loved business so much. And becoming you has kind of taken off in a way that is like, you know, started with

好。我喜歡建立商業。我一直非常喜歡商業。而成為你這種方式起飛了，像是，你知道的，從

me teaching this class and next thing I know there's like, you know, people doing it all around the world. And since the values bridge came out May 6th was

我教這門課開始，然後下一件我知道的事就是像是，你知道的，世界各地的人都在做。自從價值橋5月6日發布以來

released, 65 66,000 people have taken it. That's beginning of a business, would you say? Right. And so, um, and we've got other great products that are coming down the pike. And so, I'm

，65、66000人已經做了。那是一個商業的開始，你會說嗎？對。所以，嗯，我們有其他很棒的產品即將推出。所以，我在

building something. Building is fun. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And talk about Radius.

建設一些東西。建設很有趣。是的。是的。說到半徑。

>> Yeah. That's right. Oh, absolutely. >> So many people live, you know, you guys are touching emails and DMs every single day from people who say, "It changed my

是的。沒錯。哦，絕對。這麼多人活著，你知道的，你們每天都在接觸電子郵件和私信，來自那些說，「它以這種方式改變了我的

life this way. It fixed my life this way. It did this for my son or whatever." And I'm like, "Oh my god, I'm addicted." >> I was just going to say that. We get

生活。它以這種方式修復了我的生活。它為我的兒子或什麼的做了這個。」我就像是，「天哪，我上癮了。」我正要說那個。我們也會得到

those, too. And it's an addicting feeling. Like, it puts you in a flow state.

那些。這是一種上癮的感覺。像是，它讓你進入一種心流狀態。

>> It's like a drug. I can't stop doing this. like look all these people are I don't know like relying on me sort of there's all these other people in the

像是一種毒品。我停不下來做這個。像是看所有這些人都在，我不知道，像是依賴我，有點。世界上還有所有這些其他人

world that haven't been exposed to what we do and we can help them it's unreal it's the feeling of it and when my kids say to me you've got to take a day off

沒有接觸過我們做的東西，我們可以幫助他們，太不真實了，這種感覺，當我的孩子對我說你必須休息一天

you've got to take a break I say I'm building something and they you get that or you don't I mean it matters >> it matters I think it does

你必須休息一下，我說我在建設一些東西，他們你理解那個或你不理解，我的意思是它很重要，它很重要，我認為確實如此

>> yeah but I mean this is like one of the many reasons why I really admire you and I almost feel like I don't know I feel like we're kindred spirits in some ways

是的，但我的意思是這像是我真的很欽佩你的很多原因之一，我幾乎覺得我不知道，我覺得我們在某些方面是知己

cuz there's just so many ways that you've reinvented yourself and you've done so many new things like throughout your whole life like getting your PhD in your 60s. That's incredible.

因為有很多方式你重塑了自己，你做了這麼多新的事情，像是在你整個人生中，像是在60多歲時獲得博士學位。那太不可思議了。

>> Yeah. I think it's crazy. I don't I don't understand it. Well, first of all, reinvention sort of comes with the territory because >> the economy changes and the world

是的。我認為那很瘋狂。我不理解它。嗯，首先，重塑某種程度上是領域的一部分，因為經濟變化，世界

changes and you change. And so I mean when I started working as a journalist, we were typing on like standard, you know, manual typewriters and you have to keep on reinventing yourself or you're

變化，你也變化。所以我的意思是當我開始做記者工作時，我們用像是標準的，你知道的，手動打字機打字，你必須不斷地重塑自己否則你

just going to be passed by. And because one of my because I have the values of achievement and scope, I didn't want that to happen to me. So I kept on and

就會被超越。因為我的價值觀之一是成就和範圍，我不想讓那發生在我身上。所以我一直在，

also I just have a natural kind of personality. I'm an early adopter of technology. Like I was like one of the first people who bought a Blackberry back when there were Blackberries. I was

而且我只是有一種天生的個性。我是技術的早期採用者。像是我是最早買黑莓手機的人之一，當還有黑莓的時候。我

like this is so cool. Like you know and I so I have that part of me. Um, and I think there's weirdly a kind of fearlessness about how I approach the

像是這太酷了。像是你知道的，所以我有那部分的我。嗯，我認為奇怪的是，我對待

world. But I think it that has actually increased a lot since Jack died because when the worst thing in the world has happened to you, like what can scare you anymore?

世界有一種無畏。但我認為自從Jack去世後，那實際上增加了很多，因為當世界上最糟糕的事情發生在你身上時，還有什麼能嚇到你？

>> And one thing that really helped me was when I was fired in my 40s from the Harvard Business Review and it was like a little bit of a it felt like a public

有一件事真的幫助了我，就是當我40多歲時被哈佛商業評論解僱了，它像是一個有點像是公開的

death. I'd never been fired from anything in my life. Then I was fired and it was reported in the Wall Street Journal and then I didn't die and people

死亡。我一生從來沒有被解僱過任何事情。然後我被解僱了，這在華爾街日報上報導了，然後我沒有死，人們

kind of came around and said, "Yeah, everybody gets fired and like you'll get over it." And then like two weeks later um Oprah's organization called me and

有點圍過來說，「是的，每個人都被解僱過，你會克服的。」然後像是兩週後，Oprah的機構打電話給我，

said, "How do you like to come work here?" And I was like, "Oh, wait a minute. I kind of dig that a lot." And you realize that you could just die a

說，「你想來這裡工作嗎？」我就像是，「哦，等一下。我真的很喜歡那個。」你意識到你可以在你的職業生涯中死一

thousand times in your career and it's on you. you can just re be reborn and just to sort of say, "Yeah, but you got to have the

千次，這取決於你。你可以重生，只是說，「是的，但你必須有

the ability to say, "Yeah, I got fired.

能夠說，「是的，我被解僱了。」

I I'm I'm not going to try to I I didn't get laid off. I didn't like and in fact, when I got fired, they said they were

我我不會試圖，我我不是被裁員的。我不像是，事實上，當我被解僱時，他們說他們

going to put out a press release that said um that I resigned." And I said, "Don't do that. You're firing me. I want the truth. I'm going to tell the truth,

要發布一份新聞稿說我辭職了。」我說，「不要那樣做。你們在解僱我。我想要真相。我要說真話，

and so should you." >> Yeah. And I mean I it I I hope if there's anything, you know, that I've given other people the courage to say,

你們也應該。」是的。我的意思是，我希望如果有什麼的話，你知道的，我給了其他人勇氣說，

"Look, it didn't work out and I got fired and then I moved on." I love it when people are candid that way. So I, you know, some of my reinvention was

「看，它沒有成功，我被解僱了，然後我繼續前進。」我喜歡人們這樣坦誠。所以我，你知道的，我的一些重塑是

quite forced um because I had no other choice, but I could have just opted out and I just opted in.

相當被迫的，因為我沒有其他選擇，但我可以選擇退出，但我選擇了進入。

>> Love it. >> Awesome. >> Oh my god, you are so wise.

喜歡它。太棒了。天哪，你太有智慧了。

I'm so I'm just >> I'm just absorbing everything.

我只是我只是在吸收一切。

>> Like you were tr you're so like filling my cup. I'm so I love being with you.

像是你在填滿我的杯子。我太喜歡和你在一起了。

I'm I am so excited for your futures and you are just the fact that you're doing this is beautiful.

我太興奮你們的未來了，你們正在做這件事的事實是美麗的。

>> It's fantastic. >> Thanks so much, Susie. And so for our audience listening, what is the best way they can connect or find your content, your book?

太棒了。非常感謝，Susie。所以對於我們的聽眾，他們連接或找到你的內容、你的書的最好方式是什麼？

>> Oh, hi. All right. So, I mean there's uh Susie Welch altogether is my Instagram.

哦，嗨。好的。所以，我的意思是有Susie Welch altogether是我的Instagram。

I'm on LinkedIn. Uh you can and my podcast is called Becoming You. You can find it on all the platforms. I And the book is uh everywhere books are sold. Um

我在LinkedIn上。嗯你可以，我的播客叫做Becoming You。你可以在所有平臺上找到它。書在所有賣書的地方都有。嗯

and the valuesbridge is at the valuesbridge.com. >> Incredible. It's Susie with a Z.

價值橋在thevaluesbridge.com。太棒了。Susie是Z拼的。

>> Yeah. Suzy. >> Amazing. Thank you so much. I love being here. If you ever come to New York, you've got to come be on my podcast. Oh,

是的。Suzy。太棒了。非常感謝。我喜歡在這裡。如果你來紐約，你必須來上我的播客。哦，

we'd have so much fun. Absolutely. Okay. I'm game. I'm game.

我們會玩得很開心。絕對。好的。我願意。我願意。

>> Yay. Yay.

耶。耶。