I think the majority of people have never asked themselves that question like why do I make money? What is the point of me making all this money? What

我認為大多數人從未問過自己那個問題，像是為什麼我要賺錢？我賺所有這些錢的目的是什麼？

is my goal in life? How do I want this to perpetuate beyond my lifetime?

我人生的目標是什麼？我希望這如何在我有生之年之後延續？

>> I'm Sheree. I'm Jean. And I'm Holly.

我是 Sheree。我是 Jean。我是 Holly。

>> And we're the Tiger Sisters. >> We are your Wall Street and Silicon Valley big sisters. And we're a top 10 business podcast on Spotify where we talk about money, power, and love. When

我們是 Tiger Sisters。我們是你的華爾街和矽穀大姐姐。我們是 Spotify 上前 10 名的商業播客，談論金錢、權力和愛情。當

most of us think about wealth, we think about salaries, investments, and maybe retirement accounts. But ultra high netw worth families live in a completely different financial universe. That world

我們大多數人想到財富時，我們想到的是薪水、投資，也許是退休帳戶。但超高淨值家庭生活在一個完全不同的金融宇宙中。那個世界

is run through family offices, private companies that manage everything from investments to philanthropy to legacy planning. And at the center of one of those and the most respected is Bessemer

是透過家族辦公室運營的，這些私人公司管理從投資到慈善到遺產規劃的一切。而在其中最受尊敬的中心之一是 Bessemer

Trust. Our guest today is Holly McDonald, the current COO and incoming CEO of Bessemer Trust. Holly has spent her career helping families preserve, grow, and pass on their wealth, while

Trust。我們今天的嘉賓是 Holly McDonald，Bessemer Trust 的現任 COO 和即將上任的 CEO。Holly 的職業生涯一直在幫助家庭儲存、增長和傳承他們的財富，同時

also building her own framework, and balance and priorities with purpose.

也建立了她自己的框架，平衡和有目的的優先事項。

Today, we're talking about what family offices actually do, how the wealthiest manage their money differently, and what lessons anyone can use in their own financial lives.

今天，我們要談談家族辦公室實際上做什麼，最富有的人如何以不同的方式管理他們的錢，以及任何人可以在自己的財務生活中使用什麼教訓。

>> Welcome to the Tiger Sisters podcast, Holly. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here.

歡迎來到 Tiger Sisters 播客，Holly。非常感謝。我很高興來到這裡。

>> Thank you for having me. >> So our first question is for those who don't know what exactly is a family office and what qualifies as ultra high net worth.

感謝你邀請我。我們的第一個問題是對於不知道的人，究竟什麼是家族辦公室，什麼才算是超高淨值？

>> So I think a family office is really a dedicated team who is helping certainly with your financial life but really all aspects of your financial life. Um, and that would include everything from

我認為家族辦公室實際上是一個專門的團隊，他們當然在幫助你的財務生活，但實際上是你財務生活的所有方面。嗯，這將包括從

investment management to help with tax planning, estate planning, philanthropy.

投資管理到幫助稅務規劃、遺產規劃、慈善事業。

>> Really importantly, and something that I think can get lost in this discussion of family offices is it's not just about accumulating wealth, growing wealth, and and even preserving wealth. That's

真正重要的是，我認為在家族辦公室的討論中可能會迷失的是，這不僅僅是關於積累財富、增長財富，甚至儲存財富。這

certainly very, very important. I think certainly for us, it's really about how you're bringing peace of mind to your clients all across the board. So, not just wealth, but really well-being for

當然是非常非常重要的。我認為對我們來說，這真的是關於如何為你的客戶全面帶來心靈平靜。所以，不僅僅是財富，而是真正的幸福

the overall family. And that's not easy, but it's super important. And that's where we get a lot of satisfaction out of working very closely with our clients.

對整個家庭。這不容易，但這非常重要。這是我們從與客戶非常密切合作中獲得很多滿足感的地方。

>> Yeah, that sounds kind of like priceless peace of mind.

是的，這聽起來像是無價的心靈平靜。

>> Yes. But also, if we were to put a price on it, how do you where is there like a dollar amount that likeifies as ultra high net worth?

是的。但同時，如果我們要給它定價，有沒有一個美元金額可以算作超高淨值？

>> I'd say our average client is has around hund00 million that we're we're managing. So, it Yeah. hard to define.

我會說我們的平均客戶有大約一億美元是我們在管理的。所以，是的。很難定義。

Different firms define it differently, but um that's kind of where where we are right now.

不同的公司有不同的定義，但這大概是我們現在的位置。

>> Yeah. All right. We have something to aspire to >> in the next year or two.

是的。好的。我們有一些可以在明年或兩年內追求的東西。

>> Give it six months going give it a good six months for us.

給我們六個月，給它好好六個月。

>> Today's episode is presented by SoFi, the all-in-one finance app that helps you bank, borrow, and invest your money in one place. Okay. So, I would love to

今天的節目由 SoFi 贊助，這是一個一體化的金融應用程式，幫助你在一個地方進行銀行、借貸和投資。好的。所以，我想

ask you, so you're stepping into the role of CEO at one of the most prestigious family offices in the world.

問你，你即將擔任世界上最負盛名的家族辦公室之一的 CEO。

So what personal values guide you as you prepare for this next chapter of your leadership?

你能分享一下讓你走到這裡的職業旅程嗎？

>> Yeah. So I I think maybe just starting with something basic but very important is just in integrity. Um I feel very fortunate to be at a firm where uh I

當然。所以我在 Bessemer 已經快 25 年了。我是作為財務規劃師開始的。

feel like I'm able to be my authentic self. I'm able to uphold all of my values. They're very much aligned with our firm and importantly with our clients. So, one thing that's different

我的工作是與客戶一起制定財務計劃，思考他們的目標是什麼，他們如何才能實現這些目標。

about us being privately owned, being in only one line of business and working with these families is that we really sit on the same side of the table as our

然後隨著時間的推移，我承擔了越來越多的責任。我領導了不同的團隊。我一路成長為現在的 COO，明年一月成為 CEO。

clients and can be their true trusted adviser. We're not selling them things or pushing products or doing other things uh that I think in a lot of the

哇。25 年在同一家公司。這真的很了不起。你學到的最重要的事情是什麼？

other business models um can uh can occur and and and do occur. Uh and so really that integrity and alignment um for me personally and being able to

我認為最重要的事情是關係很重要。在這個行業，信任是一切。

express that at work has been super important and rewarding. Yeah, that's actually a really important point. Like when you say it and I think about it, I'm like, "Oh, that's so true." Because

你在與人們的財務生活打交道，這是非常私人的。他們必須信任你。而那種信任是隨著時間建立的。

so many other money managers have funds that they're basically trying to push and then they also get a ba basis or like percentage point off of. So it's

所以保持長期關係、出現、做正確的事情——這就是你建立信任的方式。

like how can you really say you're truly the fiduciary duty if you also have these other competing goals?

這太強大了。讓我們談談超高淨值家庭如何以不同的方式思考金錢。

>> Yeah. You think about it, if you're part of a public company, your ultimate responsibility is to your shareholder.

是的。我認為最大的區別是他們思考的是幾代人而不是幾年。

Um which makes sense. um that's kind of your what you're waking up thinking about. No, that doesn't mean you're doing something on purpose bad to your clients or you're a bad person or

當你有那種財富時，你不是在想「我下一年需要什麼」。你在想「我希望這個財富如何影響我的孩子、我孫子的孩子、一百年後的世界」。

something like that, but you could see how at some point over the course of the relationship, there is likely to be some type of conflict in your goals. Um and

這改變了一切。這改變了你如何投資。這改變了你如何慈善。這改變了你如何教育下一代關於金錢的事情。

we really are able to avoid that. That's that's the cornerstone of of everything we do. Once you have that alignment, you can then think really clearly, how can I

這太有洞察力了。那麼投資方面有什麼不同？

best help my client? That's all we're thinking about. uh whether it's that we need to build out new services or do something different or innovate in a different way. Uh we're able to think

我認為最大的區別是時間視野。當你在為幾代人投資時，你可以承擔更多的短期風險因為你有時間來彌補任何損失。

about that very clearly. That doesn't mean we're always 100% making the the right decision or but we have the right incentives and the right alignment and

你可以投資像私募股權這樣流動性較低的東西，這些東西有更長的持有期。

so we can also pivot where we see that we need to.

你可以進行一個普通投資者無法進入的多樣化投資組合。

>> I saw online that Bessemer Trust handles 200 billion AUM. You've had previous roles as like CIO, COO, and now incoming CEO. Number one, can you do everything?

這是真的。這是普通人無法得到的。讓我們談談慈善。超高淨值家庭如何思考回饋？

Like you're good at everything. >> What can't you do?

慈善對很多家庭來說是一個重要的部分。這不僅僅是關於稅收優惠。是關於創造遺產。

>> Yeah. What can't you do? >> Is this a real question?

很多家庭建立基金會。他們把它作為讓下一代參與的一種方式。

>> And how has your role transformed and how do you see it transforming further?

所以孩子和孫子可以參與決定捐贈什麼，支援什麼事業。這是教導價值觀和參與社羣的一種方式。

>> Uh great, great question. Um I certainly can't do everything. I think one thing I've gotten um good at over the years is identifying people who can do things

這太美麗了。那麼傳承財富呢？有什麼挑戰？

that I can't do as well or that we need as a firm and really enabling them and unleashing them to to do those things.

傳承財富是最難的事情之一。因為你不只是在傳遞金錢。你在傳遞價值觀。你在傳遞責任。

So that if I I think if I have one um really important differentiated skills, it's probably that that identifying that talent and supporting them to do it so

你必須準備好下一代來管理這筆財富。這意味著教育他們關於金錢、投資、慈善。

that collectively as a team we can do everything. So I can't do it myself. I think uh if I tried to do everything myself, I would implode and you know or

這也意味著進行困難的對話。關於家庭價值觀是什麼、期望是什麼、如果出現分歧會發生什麼的對話。

blow up or or something and that would not be a good way to to go about it. I think that's actually a good myth to just bust for you people out there who

這些是人們喜歡避免的對話。但它們是必要的。

are growing in their career that they need to do everything. Really aspiring to do that is not healthy that you want would like to certainly always improve.

這太真實了。對於我們的聽眾來說，這些超高淨值的原則中有哪些任何人都可以應用的？

I think for me this year I've really been focusing in my COO role uh improving in technology and operations.

我認為第一件事是像你有更多錢一樣思考。不要只是為下一年計劃。為接下來的十年、二十年、三十年計劃。

That's something that I've been interested in. and I've touched lightly in in different roles, but now I have the opportunity to dig a lot deeper into it. Been focused on our Gen AI

這將改變你做出的決定。這將讓你承擔更明智的風險。這將幫助你複利你的財富。

procedures and processes and getting the right people again involved in that.

第二件事是整體思考你的財務生活。不只是投資。而是稅務、遺產規劃、保險、慈善。所有這些部分如何協同工作？

That's been super rewarding and something I'm not I wouldn't say, you know, a few years ago I would have put, you know, top of the list of of my

第三件事是教育下一代。和你的孩子談論金錢。讓他們參與財務決策。

skills. So important to always be improving, but not trying to do everything. You know, you really need to do some things like sleep and have a life and have fun. And you know, I'm

我喜歡這些要點。它們非常實用。讓我們談談你個人的旅程。你是如何平衡事業和家庭的？

sure you're alluding to, you know, balance. balance is sort of an elusive concept as well. I think this there's this image of some balance being perfectly aligned which never really

這是我一直在思考的事情。我有三個孩子。我有一個要求很高的工作。平衡並不總是完美的。

happens as we know uh but over time that the things that are important to you professionally and personally that you are prioritizing that over time and making time for all of those things

但我學到的是這不是關於 50-50 的分配。是關於在正確的時刻出現。

otherwise something's going to really get out of whack.

有時候工作需要更多。有時候家庭需要更多。訣竅是在它最重要的時候在那裡。

>> Yeah. I mean, one thing we talked about earlier is that concept of having it all and how it's like kind of like quite outdated at this point and I feel like

這是一個很好的框架。你對有抱負的領導者有什麼建議？

most women don't really ascribe to that versus it's more so like you can have it all but not at the same time or like where do you weigh in on that?

第一，找到導師。有一個可以引導你、給你誠實反饋的人是無價的。

>> Yeah, I I totally agree with having it all but not at the same time. Um or not always at the same time. Yeah, >> I think there are certain moments where

第二，承擔風險。不要等到你準備好。你永遠不會覺得準備好。只管跳進去。

you may want to lean into one part of your your life uh where you have a big goal and it's kind of you sort of know it's like that moment you you really

第三，建立關係。你的人脈將是你最重要的資產。投資於它。

better lean in into it. I think for me now career-wise, it's it's certainly that moment. I'll be taking on uh the CEO role early next year. This is a good

我喜歡這個建議。謝謝你與我們分享這麼多。

time to be really focused um on my job.

謝謝你們邀請我。這是一個很棒的對話。

That doesn't mean I'm ignoring my twin 12-year-olds. uh just spoke to them before coming on here, hearing about their latest grades and homework and you know their processes around that. Um and

如果你喜歡這一集，請訂閱 Tiger Sisters 播客。在 Spotify 和 Apple Podcasts 上給我們五星評價。

you know my husband's a great supporter. There were times when I leaned into either my relationship with him or my a focus on my kids. I actually at one

分享就是關愛。感謝收聽。我們下次見。

point took you know it was a career lateral or down move. Um he had an opportunity to uh take a role in Brazil.

拜拜。

We had wanted to live abroad at some point. I was able to shift and get a job there in my the company I was working with at the time. Again, it was sort of

我們一直想在某個時候住在國外。我能轉換到那裡在我當時工作的公司找到一份工作。再次，那有點

lateral or down, >> but I thought that was a good moment to really invest more in my personal life.

橫向或向下，但我覺得那是一個很好的時機真正投資更多在我的個人生活。

Um, we had our our kids there. I was >> really focused on them. Um, at the time, again, still am, but just hour-wise a lot early on, especially with, you know,

嗯，我們在那裡有了孩子。我真的很專注在他們身上。嗯，當時，再說一次，現在還是，但早期花了很多時間，特別是，你知道的，

two two little babies who are depending on you to feed them and take care of them. You know, that has to be number one priority. Um, but then you know at

兩個小嬰兒依賴你餵他們和照顧他們。你知道的，那必須是第一優先。嗯，但然後你知道在

other moments you can you can shift a bit and you know sort of keep those things going that are important to you but maybe lean more in to another part.

其他時刻你可以轉換一下，你知道的，保持那些對你重要的事情，但也許更傾向另一部分。

I think one thing is just I was reflecting on this conversation. I think it's so cool by the way that you combine um sort of the the hardcore finance and

我覺得一件事是我剛剛在反思這次對話。順便說，我覺得你把硬核金融和

technology with uh just how it can all come together for for people and they're real humans doing this.

科技結合起來，以及這一切如何為人們聚在一起，而且是真人在做這些，這太酷了。

>> Yeah. Exactly. >> We're not chat bots doing these things.

是啊。沒錯。我們不是聊天機器人在做這些事情。

We're real people doing doing these things. Uh, but if if you have a long-term goal to keep moving up in your career and have a family and and do all

我們是真人在做這些事情。呃，但如果你有長期目標要在職業中持續向上並有家庭並做所有

these things, I it can be good to just think about not kind of stepping out of the race at any point or not even the race, like just the effort, you know. I

這些事情，我覺得可以好好想一想，不要在任何時候退出這場比賽，或者甚至不是比賽，就是努力，你知道的。我

think that's one thing that I've seen um you women certain moments can feel really overwhelming when all of these things are maybe coming at you at one

覺得那是我看到的一件事，嗯，你們女性在某些時刻可能會感覺真的很不堪重負，當所有這些事情可能同時

time and it can be tempting I think to just say I'm going to take myself out of this. Now, there can be some really rational reasons to do that and maybe

向你撲來，我覺得會很想說我要把自己從這裡抽出來。現在，可能有一些非常理性的理由這樣做，也許

some different on on-ramps that you can get back in. So, I'm not saying never, but you know, if there's a way that you can sort of keep these things going,

有一些不同的入口可以讓你回來。所以，我不是說永遠不要，但你知道的，如果有方法可以保持這些事情進行，

even acknowledging that you're not super leaning in to to one thing right now, um you can uh Dr. Laura Morgan Roberts is someone that I've had the chance to

即使承認你現在沒有超級投入某一件事，嗯，你可以——Dr. Laura Morgan Roberts 是我有機會

interact with who's talks a lot about in inclusivity and it's it's kind of like the ability to fade a little bit, like have a little more flexibility at a certain moment. That doesn't that's

互動的人，她談論很多關於包容性，這有點像是能夠淡化一點，像是在某個時刻有多一點彈性。那不是——那

okay. Everyone is doing that whether they're telling you or not. You know >> true >> sometimes um you know people are going out shopping during lunch and not telling anyone but you know they're

沒關係。每個人都在這樣做，不管他們有沒有告訴你。你知道——對——有時候，你知道，人們午餐時間出去購物，不告訴任何人，但你知道他們

doing a lot of things. And I I was actually thinking about you know some colleagues I used to work with you men who would go to a golf store like every

在做很多事情。我其實在想一些我以前的同事，那些男性每天

day during lunch and they're not telling anyone what they're doing right if you wanted to go >> it's the same thing right it's okay um you can fade a little bit

午餐時間會去高爾夫球店，他們不告訴任何人他們在做什麼，對吧，如果你想去——是同一回事，對吧，沒關係，嗯，你可以淡化一點

>> but to not fully take yourself out because it feels overwhelming if you can hang in there. Uh, I think that's that's been one thing that's really helped me

但不要完全把自己抽出來，因為感覺不堪重負，如果你能撐住。呃，我覺得那是真的幫助我的一件事

um in my career, even when it felt, you know, rough or or tough, uh, to just stick stick with it.

嗯，在我的職業中，即使感覺，你知道的，艱難或困難，呃，就是堅持下去。

>> I'm obsessed with this. >> That's such good that's >> like the new modernday >> like how the modern woman should be thinking about it, less in terms of

我超迷這個。那太好了——像是新的現代——像是現代女性應該怎麼思考這個，少一點

balance, more in terms of priorities and different seasons, different chapters, and how you can, I don't know, weight different things differently at different points in your life.

平衡，多一點優先順序和不同的季節、不同的章節，以及你如何在人生的不同時刻以不同方式權衡不同的事情。

>> 100%. Really well said. >> And I love you said that. Get it better.

100%。說得很好。我喜歡你說的。說得更好。

>> No, I love your phrasing of like it's okay to fade a little bit. It's like fading in and out of like having more intensity versus less intensity at different times for different reasons.

不，我喜歡你的說法，像是可以淡化一點是沒關係的。像是淡入淡出，像是在不同時間因為不同原因有更多強度相對於更少強度。

>> Yeah. And not taking yourself out completely.

是啊。而且不要完全把自己抽出來。

>> Yeah. >> And you say that because it's it's harder to get back.

是啊。你這樣說是因為——回來更難。

>> It's really hard to get get back in.

真的很難回來。

Okay. You know, it's not impossible. And I think there are certain industries or or sectors or companies where it's easier to do that um than others. But,

好。你知道的，這不是不可能的。而且我覺得有某些行業或部門或公司更容易這樣做，嗯，比其他的。但，

you know, I my experience in finance is that there's it's a pretty high entry cost essentially. And so once you're in there and you have a good role, um, and

你知道的，我在金融業的經驗是進入成本相當高。所以一旦你在裡面並且有一個好職位，嗯，而且

again, you know, I I think we often high achievers put so much pressure on themselves to be performing at this A+ I'm giving it my 100% every single day

再說，你知道的，我覺得我們經常高成就者給自己這麼大的壓力要表現在這個 A+ 我每天都給 100%

level all the time. And I think it can actually be quite healthy. And this is really regardless of where you are in your life or your career. But I found

水平所有時間。而且我覺得這其實可以相當健康。這真的不管你在人生或職業的哪裡。但我發現

that where you do fade a little bit, and that could just be like, I'm not going to go to this networking event tonight.

你確實淡化一點的地方，那可能只是像是，我今晚不去這個社交活動。

I'm going to go home and like read a book and write in my journal and hang out with my kids a little bit or or just

我要回家，像是讀書、寫日記、和孩子們待一會兒，或者只是

sleep or do yoga or whatever it may be.

睡覺或做瑜伽或什麼的。

>> All sounds great. >> All sounds great, right? Um but then the next day, guess what? You might have a much better idea at work.

聽起來都很棒。聽起來都很棒，對吧？嗯，但然後第二天，猜怎麼了？你可能在工作上有更好的想法。

>> That saves you hours and hours. That's that's what I I some of my best ideas are when I'm going for a run in the morning um with our our little dog and I

那節省你很多很多小時。這就是我——我一些最好的想法是當我早上帶著我們的小狗跑步時，我

see him doing something funny and I'm like, "Oh, wait. I should really be doing X at work with my team." You know, it just pops in my brain and and that's

看到牠做一些有趣的事，我會想「喔，等等。我真的應該在工作和團隊做 X。」你知道的，它就在我腦中蹦出來，那

way more effective than had I just been sitting at my desk trying to, you know, banging my head against my computer trying to come up with a new idea,

比我只是坐在桌前試圖，你知道的，把頭撞在電腦上想出新想法有效多了，

fading a little, taking a new perspective, taking a breath. Um it's not at all, uh I think hurting productivity. I think that can actually help your your medium-term productivity.

淡化一點，換個新視角，喘口氣。嗯，這完全不會，呃，我覺得傷害生產力。我覺得那其實可以幫助你的中期生產力。

>> Yeah. It's like maximizing what I call shower thoughts.

是啊。這像是最大化我所說的淋浴想法。

>> Yes. >> Right. Like when you're in the shower, you have the best ideas and it's because you're not I don't know. You're not distracted by all the million things

是的。對吧。像是當你在淋浴時，你有最好的想法，那是因為你不是——我不知道。你沒有被週圍的百萬件事分心

that are going on around you and you're not like at your desk trying to like grind away.

而且你不是像在桌前試影象拼命工作。

>> 100%. Yeah. And for whatever I think for everyone that can be a different thing, whether it's Yeah. exercising, showering, just walking around. know Jeff Bezos has has said this his most

100%。是啊。不管什麼，我覺得對每個人可能是不同的事，不管是——是啊。運動、淋浴、只是走走。知道 Jeff Bezos 說過這個，他最

productive hour is just he walks around in the morning like doing nothing for an hour and I think comes up with these brilliant ideas.

有生產力的一小時是他早上走走，像是什麼都不做一小時，我覺得就想出這些絕妙的想法。

>> It's redefining productivity. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Or redefining how to set yourself up for productivity.

這是重新定義生產力。是啊。是啊。或重新定義如何為生產力做準備。

>> I think that's right. >> So Sheree, how do you think about your checkings and savings account? Because for me checkings is money that I need to

我覺得那是對的。所以 Sheree，你怎麼想你的支票和儲蓄帳戶？因為對我來說支票是我需要

use in the next 3 to four months and then savings is everything after that like long term. And because of that, I feel like most of us don't think about

在接下來 3 到 4 個月使用的錢，然後儲蓄是之後的一切，像是長期。因為這樣，我覺得我們大多數人不會想

the interest that we could be earning on those accounts.

這些帳戶可以賺的利息。

>> Well, the problem is most banks give you next to nothing, like a fraction of a percent. And all the while, they're making money off of your deposits. So, that's where today's sponsor, SoFi,

好，問題是大多數銀行給你幾乎沒有，像是一點點百分比。同時，他們用你的存款賺錢。所以，這就是今天的贊助商 SoFi

comes in. When you open a SoFi check and savings account and set up direct deposit, you actually earn a competitive APY. And there are no account fees. And

介入的地方。當你開一個 SoFi 支票和儲蓄帳戶並設定直接存款，你真的可以獲得有競爭力的年利率。而且沒有帳戶費用。

that means your money isn't just sitting there. It means it's working, right?

那意味著你的錢不只是放在那裡。意味著它在工作，對吧？

That's the part most people miss, having a bank work for you. We think about earning money, but not about the money in our bank account. When in reality,

那是大多數人錯過的部分，讓銀行為你工作。我們想的是賺錢，但不是我們銀行帳戶裡的錢。實際上，

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你賺的每一美元利息可以賺更多利息。隨著時間推移，那個增長真的會累積起來。你甚至可以透過直接存款提早 2 天拿到薪水。而且你可以獲得

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1000 美元或更多的直接存款可以獲得 50 美元或 300 美元的獎金。條款適用。開始讓你的錢工作。前往 sofi.com/tigersisters 或點選下面的連結瞭解更多並開始。

So checking and savings is offered through SoFi Bank NA member FDIC.

支票和儲蓄透過 SoFi Bank NA 提供，FDIC 成員。

And now back to the show. So, back to the topic of family offices. So, how do family offices manage money differently from the way that most people think

現在回到節目。所以，回到家族辦公室的話題。那家族辦公室管理錢的方式和大多數人想的

about personal finance and in terms of the preservation, growth, and passing on wealth?

個人理財有什麼不同，在保值、增值和傳承財富方面？

>> So, I I think there are actually more similarities in in terms of how family offices are uh approaching wealth than than not. Um and I was reflecting on

所以，我覺得家族辦公室處理財富的方式其實有更多相似之處。嗯，我在反思

this obviously most of the time I am thinking about this ultra high net worth spa space as well as uh family offices specifically but I I do think a lot of

這個，顯然大部分時間我在想超高淨值領域以及特別是家族辦公室，但我確實覺得很多

the the principles can be applied you know more broadly >> um maybe just to start with probably the most important thing like what is the purpose of the wealth?

原則可以更廣泛地應用。嗯，也許只是從最重要的事開始——財富的目的是什麼？

>> What is one trying to do with their wealth? Are they trying to preserve it?

一個人想用財富做什麼？他們想保值嗎？

If they are for what reason? Um now it sounds like well of course you want to preserve it but but really in asking these questions why I think it can then

如果是，為什麼？嗯，現在聽起來好像當然你想保值，但真的問這些問題，為什麼，我覺得可以然後

help set the other priorities. So for example if the purpose of the wealth is to pass along to the next generation.

幫助設定其他優先順序。所以例如如果財富的目的是傳給下一代。

All right great. So we know that that can help um with a lot of the structuring and um tax considerations and and things like that. If alternatively the purpose is to increase

好，很好。所以我們知道那可以幫助很多結構和稅務考慮和這些事情。如果或者目的是增加

the wealth for philan for philanthropy for a really important cause for a family you know that may lead to a different structure asset allocation types of um investments that the family

財富用於慈善事業，為家族真正重要的事業，你知道的，那可能導致不同的結構、資產配置、家族

office will be making. So again it sounds very basic but I think that's super important to to start with that um and then it goes down you know levels

辦公室會做的投資型別。所以再說一次，這聽起來很基本，但我覺得那是超級重要的起點，然後從那裡往下

for from there. Um, if the purpose is to pass it along to the next generation, what are the values associated with the family that you really want to pass

深入。嗯，如果目的是傳給下一代，你真正想傳承的家族相關價值觀是什麼？

along? Because I think, you know, ultimately >> we really take a step back. Why would you want to pass along your wealth?

因為我覺得，你知道的，最終——我們真的退後一步。你為什麼想傳承你的財富？

Like, is it just so your kids can have a super easy life and never worry about things? Like, probably not, >> right? Um, and the majority of our our clients, actually about twothirds are

像是隻是為了你的孩子可以過超輕鬆的生活，永遠不用擔心事情？像是，可能不是，對吧？嗯，我們大約三分之二的客戶是

are our first generation wealth creators. So, they've created a business, >> probably worked very hard, had a lot of grit. Um, and in creating that, >> had a lot of success.

第一代財富創造者。所以，他們創造了一個企業，可能工作非常努力，有很多毅力。嗯，在創造過程中，有很多成功。

>> And so, you know, really, I think the last thing you want is for your children to have no view on on any of that, right? Often you you really want to pass

所以，你知道的，真的，我覺得你最不想的是你的孩子對所有這些完全沒有看法，對吧？通常你真的想傳承

along those those values as well. So thinking about how you can use the wealth to really enable them uh perhaps to have more choices about how they're spending their time. Um are they maybe

那些價值觀。所以想想你怎麼用財富真的讓他們能夠有更多選擇關於怎麼花他們的時間。嗯，他們是不是也許

in a better position to be an entrepreneur because they're you know receiving this wealth or they can be um a social worker and not make as much money but but still have you know

在更好的位置成為企業家，因為他們收到這筆財富，或者他們可以成為社工，不賺那麼多錢，但仍然有，你知道的，

lifestyle that they they had desired. So it it's really kind of drilling down I think into those values is is a super important starting point and then you

他們想要的生活方式。所以這真的是深入挖掘那些價值觀，我覺得是超級重要的起點，然後你

know you can go from there and we can get super detailed on every technical area that you need to make sure that you're aligned with those goals. But I

知道的，你可以從那裡開始，我們可以在每個技術領域都非常詳細地確保你和那些目標一致。但我

thought I would just mention that because that's probably the most most important thing.

想提一下，因為那可能是最最重要的事。

>> Yeah. I guess in asking your clients their reasons, is there most common reason that you hear and anything surprising?

是啊。我猜在問你的客戶他們的原因時，有沒有你聽到最常見的原因，有什麼讓人驚訝的？

I'd say the most common is preservation of I've worked very very hard. Our family has worked very hard at some generation. You know, this this is both for those who are inheriting the wealth.

我會說最常見的是保值，我工作非常非常努力。我們家族工作非常努力，某一代。你知道的，這對那些繼承財富的人都是。

You know, someone along the way made this money and was super successful and so preserving it, I think it really is is top of the list. Um, and I'd say

你知道的，某個人在路上賺了這筆錢，非常成功，所以保值，我覺得真的是最重要的。嗯，我會說

along with that, growing it to allow for financial goals to be met because if you're overly focused on preservation and not doing anything with the wealth, inflation itself will just erode it.

同時，讓它增長以實現財務目標，因為如果你過度專注於保值而不做任何事情，通脹本身就會侵蝕它。

>> Yeah. >> And so whether you you really want to grow a lot or you just are trying to preserve and keep up with inflation, there's at least some strategy, you

是啊。所以不管你真的想增長很多還是隻是試圖保值和跟上通脹，至少有一些策略，你

know, that we need to be employing um to to really maintain the purchasing power of that wealth over time. So, I'd say that's kind of the most common denominator. Uh, and then from there,

知道的，我們需要使用，嗯，來真正維持那筆財富隨時間的購買力。所以，我會說那是最常見的共同點。呃，然後從那裡，

and Gene, maybe back to your other question as well, you know, some unique things that family offices might be doing that, um, you know, I'm not doing

Jean，也許回到你的另一個問題，你知道的，一些家族辦公室可能在做的獨特的事，嗯，你知道的，我沒有在

in my my personal life. Um, not meeting that ultra high net worth, you know, level either, myself personally, um, and not having a lot of time to be thinking,

我的個人生活中做。嗯，也沒有達到超高淨值，你知道的，我個人的水平，嗯，也沒有很多時間，

you know, purely about my personal finances either. So, we have to be, my husband and I have to be super organized about how we approach that. But family

你知道的，純粹想我的個人財務。所以，我們必須——我丈夫和我必須超級有組織地處理這個。但家族

offices, you know, they may have an interest in a particular um type of investment or I'd say more some are more invested in or interested in oneoff opportunities

辦公室，你知道的，他們可能對特定型別的投資有興趣，或者我會說更多，有些對一次性機會更投入或感興趣，

>> where they can spend some time analyzing them and and putting a bunch of them together and you know that's not going to be realistic for me to be doing. I'm

他們可以花一些時間分析它們，把很多放在一起，你知道的，對我來說這不現實。我

very busy with my job and my family etc.

工作和家庭等等非常忙。

So, but if you have a full team that's focused on that, there might be more bespoke investments. Um there may be a general theme as well, you know, for

所以，但如果你有一個專注於此的完整團隊，可能有更定製的投資。嗯，可能也有一個一般主題，你知道的，對

family offices and just ultra high net worth individuals not needing as to necessarily spend as much of that money over time. That can afford them the opportunity to invest in less liquid

家族辦公室和超高淨值個人來說，不一定需要隨時間花那麼多錢。那可以讓他們有機會投資不那麼流動的

assets like private equity, venture capital, you know, things where you're not expecting to get your money back for 5 to 10 to more years. um and you have enough certainty around that that you

資產，像私募股權、創投，你知道的，那些你不期望 5 到 10 年或更長時間拿回錢的東西。嗯，你對此有足夠的確定性，你

can make those investments. I think for people that are early on in their career, um you don't know as much about your future liquidity needs. You don't know, okay, I'm feeling good about my

可以做那些投資。我覺得對職業早期的人來說，嗯，你對未來的流動性需求不太瞭解。你不知道，好，我對

salary now. Will I have enough to buy a house in in five years? You know, you wouldn't necessarily want to be investing >> so much that you couldn't meet your

現在的薪水感覺不錯。我五年後有足夠買房嗎？你知道的，你不一定想投資——這麼多以至於你無法達成你

other goals along the way. There's more uncertainty around that. So, that's maybe a difference with family office where they typically have a much longer time horizon. Yeah.

其他的目標。有更多不確定性。所以，那也許是家族辦公室的不同之處，他們通常有更長的時間範圍。是啊。

>> And so have maybe more flexibility. >> Yeah. And it affords them the ability to get into these more like illquid or alternative asset classes that are one typically just not available to retail

所以有更多彈性。是啊。這讓他們能夠進入這些更不流動或替代的資產類別，那些通常對散戶投資者不可用的

investors because of the minimums. And then two, they just don't have that uh sort of like runway to be able to play in that area.

因為最低投資額。然後兩個，他們只是沒有那種，像是跑道，能夠在那個領域玩。

>> Exactly. >> Yeah. One thing we've spent some time on is and I think we've been pretty successful at is coming up with a way in which uh smaller pools of capital where we're

沒錯。是啊。我們花了一些時間的一件事，我覺得我們相當成功的，是想出一種方式讓更小的資金池在我們

managing it um they can also have exposure to private markets. M >> we've seen excise um returns there and particularly you know when you're able to get with the top managers as as we've

管理它時，嗯，他們也可以有私募市場的曝光。嗯——我們看到超額回報，特別是你知道的，當你能夠和頂級經理人合作，就像我們

been you lucky enough to partner with some of the top managers in the space uh but you may have even again even for an ultra high net worth family they may

幸運地與一些頂級經理人合作。呃，但你可能甚至——再說一次，即使是超高淨值家族，他們可能

have an account for a grandchild that's quite small in the dollars. We still would like the ability for those accounts to take advantage of this opportunity in the market. So, that's

有一個給孫子的帳戶，金額相當小。我們仍然希望那些帳戶能利用市場上的這個機會。所以，那是

something we've spent some time on and and thankfully we're able to even for much smaller uh amounts of money get access to those exciting investment opportunities.

我們花了一些時間的事，而且幸運的是，我們甚至能夠讓更小的金額獲得這些令人興奮的投資機會。

>> Oh, that's awesome. Um, so for everyone who's watching who isn't high net worth, how do they >> how can you sort of like translate everything that you know and you've

喔，那太棒了。嗯，所以對每個觀看的不是高淨值的人，他們怎麼——你如何把你在過去 20 多年學到的和做過的一切

learned and you've done over the last 20 plus years to their own approach to investing or like what do you do in your own life where you're sort of like

轉化成他們自己的投資方法，或者你在自己的生活中做什麼，像是

maximizing and tapping into this knowledge that you have?

最大化並利用這些你擁有的知識？

>> Yeah. So I I it was a really a great opportunity to talk to you about this because I hadn't really thought that much about some of these concepts

是啊。所以，我覺得和你談這個是很好的機會，因為我之前沒有真的想那麼多關於這些概念，

before, but I think it's quite applicable at the individual level. You know, I'm I'm not going to be going out and and uh creating my own family office. That would be silly. I'll just

但我覺得在個人層面相當適用。你知道的，我——我不會出去建立自己的家族辦公室。那會很傻。我只會

invest in in my firm. Um, but you can anyone could essentially think of having their own mini family office even if it's just themsel or or themsel and their partner, spouse and having some

投資我的公司。嗯，但你可以，任何人基本上都可以想著有自己的迷你家族辦公室，即使只是他們自己或他們自己和伴侶、配偶，並有一些

regular dialogue around their financial goals, >> the why. What are we working hard for?

定期對話關於他們的財務目標，為什麼。我們努力工作是為了什麼？

What are are we aligned? Um, let's let's talk about that. Um, how are we going to get there? Are there some strategies where we can automate our

我們一致嗎？嗯，讓我們談談這個。嗯，我們怎麼到達那裡？有沒有一些策略可以讓我們

uh goal achievement in a sense? So for example, I know that of my paycheck I want to save a certain portion. I want to need to spend a certain portion and

自動化達成目標，在某種意義上？所以例如，我知道我的薪水，我想存一定比例。我需要花一定比例，

maybe there's some portion that I'd like to, you know, donate to important causes.

也許有一部分我想，你知道的，捐給重要的事業。

um can I set up like automatic movement of money to meet those goals?

嗯，我能設定像是自動轉移資金來達成那些目標嗎？

Whether it's separate accounts or or um just separate ledgers um so I don't have to remember that every time I'm getting my paycheck. It's just it's just kind of

不管是單獨帳戶或或嗯，只是單獨的分類帳，嗯，這樣我不用每次拿到薪水都記住。它就是

happening and then with some regularity I'm reviewing that and making some decisions around it. Um so it's it is there is a way I think to essentially

發生，然後定期我檢視它並做一些決定。嗯，所以是有方法的，我覺得基本上

kind of create a mini family office um you know for yourself and and one theme that we've seen in working with our clients and that I I would say uh in

創造一個迷你家族辦公室，嗯，你知道的，給你自己，我們在和客戶合作中看到的一個主題，我會說在

reading industry research is is consistent with this is that people are more comfortable or there's more of a desire to talk more about money. It's less of a taboo subject. I think you're

讀行業研究中也是一致的，是人們更願意或有更多願望談論更多關於錢。這不再是禁忌話題。我覺得你

really driving a lot of this. Um, >> yeah, we're really all of your your listeners um >> and followers. And it's I think it's really important and fascinating. You

真的在推動這個。嗯，是啊，真的所有你的——聽眾——和追隨者。這很重要和有趣。你

know, we found that when there is greater communication, you're able to have higher chance of meeting those goals and having it be a positive experience for everyone who's involved in it.

知道的，我們發現當有更多溝通時，你能夠有更高機會達成那些目標，並讓它對每個參與的人都是正面的體驗。

So that's been I I think an important shift and and one that we encourage our clients and I would encourage you know everyone to think about and and

所以那是——我覺得一個重要的轉變，我們鼓勵我們的客戶，我也會鼓勵，你知道的，每個人想想，

communication does not need to be like there are different degrees of being open about one's wealth. You know I'm not suggesting running around telling everyone how much you're making or

溝通不需要是——像是有不同程度的對財富開放。你知道的，我不是建議到處告訴每個人你賺多少或

something but maybe with your you know partner or spouse that you know you say wow it might be helpful to to add this into the conversation. I've shared this

什麼，但也許和你的，你知道的，伴侶或配偶，你知道的，你說哇，把這個加進對話可能有幫助。我之前分享過

before. Um, and just to challenge yourself to to think, is there a benefit to being a little bit more open and having a discussion about this? Um, and

這個。嗯，只是挑戰自己去想，更開放一點並討論這個有沒有好處？嗯，

even just to think, you know, very objectively with yourself about it, you know, why am I working hard? What is my goal? Am I on track to achieve that?

甚至只是想，你知道的，非常客觀地和自己想這個，你知道的，我為什麼努力工作？我的目標是什麼？我是否在實現那個的軌道上？

>> Yeah. >> Well, it's interesting. Like, we don't learn to ask ourselves those questions in school. Like, there's no class on that. And also, it depends on the

是啊。好，有趣的是。像是，我們沒有在學校學會問自己這些問題。像是，沒有那個課。而且，這取決於

environment that you grew up in. Like a lot of times, like you said, I think in a lot of families, it's taboo to talk about money. It's uncomfortable. You

你成長的環境。像是很多時候，像你說的，我覺得在很多家庭，談錢是禁忌。很不舒服。你

don't really Some people don't have those conversations with their parents or maybe their parents don't even know.

不太——有些人沒有和父母進行那些對話，或者也許他們的父母都不知道。

>> Yeah. Or their parents sort of like hide all of that from them and they they just don't grow up in an environment where it's natural.

是啊。或者他們的父母把所有那些對他們隱藏起來，他們只是沒有在那是自然的環境中長大。

>> Yeah. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> So, I feel like really it can be really tricky. Um so, I'm not saying this is an an easy thing and it may be of starting

是啊。絕對是。是啊。所以，我覺得真的可能很棘手。嗯，所以，我不是說這是一件容易的事，可能是要先爬再走

walking before running. I would say, you know, um talking a little bit about it, you know, not sort of cornering your parents and saying, "What are you leaving for me?" or, you know, something

跑。我會說，你知道的，嗯，談一點，你知道的，不是逼問你的父母說「你要留給我什麼？」或者，你知道的，

like that, but just kind of opening opening that that conversation, um taking it step by step, I think can be can be really healthy.

類似的，只是一步步地開啟那個對話，嗯，我覺得可以——可以真的很健康。

>> Yeah. I love your approach of coming at it from like a framework where you're like asking these questions first because I like even thinking about myself and thinking about everyone who's

是啊。我喜歡你的方法，從一個框架出發，像是你先問這些問題，因為我像是甚至想到我自己和想到每個

like watching this or listening, I think the majority of people have never asked themselves that question like why do I make money? Like what is the point of me

看這個或聽這個的人，我覺得大多數人從來沒有問過自己那個問題，像是我為什麼賺錢？像是我

making all this money? What is my goal in life? Like what do I where do I want to be when I'm 80? And like how do I want this to perpetuate, you know,

賺所有這些錢的意義是什麼？我人生的目標是什麼？像是我 80 歲時想在哪裡？這怎麼延續，你知道的，

beyond my lifetime? Well, because those are scary and deep and philosophical questions that are not for the everyday.

超越我的一生？好，因為那些是可怕的、深刻的、哲學的問題，不是每天的問題。

You know what I mean? Those are I mean maybe they're shower thoughts, but they are more of like a sit down reflect.

你知道我的意思嗎？那些——我是說也許是淋浴想法，但它們更像是坐下來反思。

>> And also in addition to that, like what are the options? You know, like what can this be for? I don't know, you know.

而且除此之外，像是有什麼選項？你知道的，像是這可以用來做什麼？我不知道，你知道的。

>> And I Yeah, I I totally agree. And you know, >> I think I'm still in the point of my life where I'm I'm hopefully in wealth creation mode. I'm working hard. I'm

而且我是的，我完全同意。而且你知道的，我覺得我仍然在人生中我希望在財富創造模式的階段。我努力工作。我

trying to balance all these things. I'm not stopping and reflecting every day um about these topics and and I think just to the point of like automating some of

試圖平衡所有這些事情。我沒有每天停下來反思，嗯，關於這些話題，我覺得只是為了自動化一些

this, you know, can you put a calendar reminder in once a year >> as you get maybe into the new year, you know, that's when you're going to spend

這個，你知道的，你能不能一年放一個日曆提醒，當你進入新年，你知道的，那時你要

two hours doing this or yeah, >> maybe it's once um a quarter. I you know, whatever it may be, but literally like put it in your calendar like this

花兩小時做這個，或是的，也許是一季一次。我，你知道的，不管是什麼，但真的像是把它放進你的日曆，像是這

is a meeting I need to do. Um and almost with your savings, I think this is a bill I need to pay. It's the same thing as a bill. I'm paying it to myself,

是我需要做的會議。嗯，幾乎和你的儲蓄一樣，我覺得這是我需要付的帳單。是同一回事。我在付給自己，

saving it for my goal. >> Um and so just yeah, creating some some guardrails for for yourself because it's not um it's really not possible to think about this all the time. You know,

為我的目標存錢。嗯，所以只是是的，為自己創造一些護欄，因為這不是，嗯，這真的不可能一直想這個。你知道的，

again, thankfully people are engaged in the activities they're doing. But once in a while to check in, I think is is helpful.

再說，幸好人們在忙他們的活動。但偶爾檢查一下，我覺得是有幫助的。

>> Yeah. I think even if you're just having that conversation with yourself, like if you're not partnered and you have that conversation with yourself, it's like building a family office of one.

是啊。我覺得即使你只是和自己進行那個對話，像是如果你沒有伴侶，你和自己進行那個對話，就像建立一人的家族辦公室。

Absolutely. Absolutely. And and once a year I'm going to write down some things for myself and ask myself these questions and set my goals. 100%.

絕對是。絕對是。而且一年一次我要為自己寫下一些事情，問自己這些問題，設定我的目標。100%。

>> So, can you give us an example of like how would you answer that question >> that that you're posing? I'm putting you on this model.

所以，你能給我們一個例子，像是你怎麼回答那個問題，你提出的那個？我在考你。

>> That's a good one. We're getting we're getting Well, because I need a model. I need to model on something because I don't I don't know how I would answer.

那是個好問題。我們要變得——好，因為我需要一個模型。我需要模仿一些東西，因為我不——我不知道我會怎麼回答。

>> Yeah. No, I love I love it. Um I actually majored in philosophy in college, which is >> Oh, yes. Um um and there's a a great uh

是啊。不，我喜歡——我喜歡這個。嗯，我其實大學主修哲學，這是——喔，是的。嗯，有一句很棒的

Socrates quote um that goes to mind. I mean, you know, what's a conversation without Plato and Socrates? Um so the unexamined life is is not worth living.

蘇格拉底的話，嗯，我想到的。我是說，你知道的，沒有柏拉圖和蘇格拉底的對話是什麼？嗯，未經審視的人生不值得活。

No, it's it's a little extreme, but you know, per philosophical discussions. You know, you kind of start with the extreme and then see where where you end up. So,

不，這有點極端，但你知道的，按哲學討論。你知道的，你有點從極端開始，然後看看會到哪裡。所以，

um I think reflecting uh you know, periodically is is super important. One thing I've realized about myself is that I get a lot of satisfaction um out of

嗯，我覺得定期反思，嗯，你知道的，是超級重要的。我關於自己意識到的一件事是我從

work. Now, why is that? I I I believe in what my firm is doing, I really enjoy working with with um other motivated people. I love seeing other people do

工作中得到很多滿足感。現在，為什麼是這樣？我——我——我相信我的公司在做的事，我真的很喜歡和其他有動力的人一起工作。我喜歡看到其他人在

well in their career and if I've been able to help them in some way, I get a lot of satisfaction um you know, out of that. Um I am not as motivated by money.

他們的職業中做得好，如果我能以某種方式幫助他們，我得到很多滿足感，嗯，你知道的，從那裡。嗯，我不是那麼受金錢驅動。

I'm going to not send this to my boss.

我不會把這個發給我老闆。

tell him I'm super motivated by money. No, of course, you know, but but it that for me it's it's really about the intrinsic value of of the work and contribution that's super motivating to

告訴他我超級受金錢驅動。不，當然，你知道的，但那對我來說真的是工作和貢獻的內在價值，那是超級激勵我的。

me. Yeah. >> Um you know, money at the end of the day can be more of like the the goal stick or the the measure of if other people

是啊。嗯，你知道的，錢到最後可以更像是目標棍或衡量其他人

are seeing that I'm doing well, too. So, I you know, you know, and I joke with my husband like I I love our our home. I love our family setup. Like, if we

是否看到我做得好。所以，我，你知道的，你知道的，我和我丈夫開玩笑，像是我——我喜歡我們的家。我喜歡我們的家庭設定。像是，如果我們

happen to win the lottery tomorrow, I would not want to move. like moving's a pain in the you know what like it takes a lot of energy. I love spending time

明天中了彩票，我不會想搬家。像是搬家很麻煩，你知道的，像是需要很多精力。我喜歡花時間

with my family investing in in my relationship with my husband and my kids um and you know and working I get a lot of satisfaction out of that. So it's not

和我的家人，投資在和丈夫和孩子的關係，嗯，你知道的，還有工作，我從那裡得到很多滿足感。所以這不是

there's not sort of some endgame you know that I'm I'm looking for. Um I did read a you know a good book just about thinking about the different phases of

有某種終局，你知道的，我在找的。嗯，我確實讀了一本，你知道的，好書，關於思考人生的不同階段

your life and kind of planning for them.

並為它們計劃。

Um Arthur Cbrook strength to strength and uh you're too young to read it right now. it's more about like preparing for retirement, but there were some, you know, good takeaways because in in all

嗯，Arthur Brooks 的《從優勢到優勢》，呃，你現在太年輕讀了。這更多是關於為退休做準備，但有一些，你知道的，好的收穫，因為在所有

phases of life, I think you can have kind of an arc to your goals in your, you know, career, whether that's um a career in a typical sense or just the

人生階段，我覺得你的目標可以有一個弧線，在你的，你知道的，職業中，不管是典型意義上的職業還是隻是

things that you're contributing and aspiring to. Um, and so yeah, for me that that's a good, you know, guiding principle. And then just realizing too over time I kind of always knew I would

你貢獻和追求的東西。嗯，所以是的，對我來說那是一個好的，你知道的，指導原則。然後只是隨著時間意識到我有點一直知道我會

want to be married and have kids but I I didn't know exactly how you know this would all work out. But um you know spending quality time with my family is

想結婚生孩子，但我不確切知道，你知道的，這一切會怎麼發展。但，嗯，你知道的，和家人花質量時間

also extremely important to me. Um I like spending non-quality time with them is sort of less important. So when I'm traveling for work or whatnot, you know,

對我也極其重要。嗯，我喜歡和他們花非質量時間——有點不那麼重要。所以當我出差工作或什麼的，你知道的，

I am I'm okay with that not being there for every single second. Uh but then when I am there really making it um you know high value quality time I think is

我接受不是每一秒都在那裡。呃，但然後當我在那裡時，真的讓它成為，嗯，你知道的，高價值質量時間，我覺得對

for me you know what's really important and that's different for other people.

我來說，你知道的，真的重要，那對其他人不同。

Some people would prefer to have a lot more time there and you know maybe a little less time on on work and I get it. You just sort of have to reflect for

有些人會更喜歡有更多時間在那裡，你知道的，也許更少時間在工作上，我理解。你只是需要為

yourself what the right mix is. >> Yeah. And hearing you talk about this I can see how clear your priorities are to you. And I think it's it's inspiring me

你自己反思什麼是正確的組合。是啊。聽你談這個，我可以看到你的優先順序對你有多清楚。我覺得這激勵我

to ask those questions of myself to get clear on my own priorities and how they stack up.

問自己那些問題，弄清楚我自己的優先順序和它們怎麼排列。

>> Yeah. I think they become clearer over time. I know um you know early on in my career they weren't as clear. Uh certainly I was just working really

是啊。我覺得它們隨著時間變得更清楚。我知道，嗯，你知道的，在我職業早期它們沒那麼清楚。呃，確定的是我只是在

really hard and didn't exactly know why >> or what I was doing or how this would all work out. Um and it would be overwhelming if I uh if I thought about

非常非常努力工作，不確切知道為什麼——或我在做什麼或這一切會怎麼發展。嗯，如果我想太多會讓人不堪重負

it too much but >> yeah so don't be too hard on yourself.

但——是的，所以不要對自己太苛刻。

>> I love the Socrates. We're just three liberal arts girlies at heart like who went to liberal arts schools and then worked in more technical fields. Well, I think it's it's interesting because, you

我喜歡蘇格拉底。我們只是三個骨子裡的文科女孩，像是去了文科學校然後在更技術性的領域工作。好，我覺得這很有趣，因為，你

know, the the tides changed so much. >> Um, I know just not that many years ago, you know, you had to be only a computer science major.

知道的，潮流變了這麼多。嗯，我知道不久前，你知道的，你必須只是電腦科學主修。

>> And now, like, it's great if you're an amazing uh computer engineer and you understand how to use AI and like that was a great path for you to go down if

現在，像是，如果你是個優秀的電腦工程師，你懂得怎麼使用 AI，那是你很好的路徑，如果

that's your passion, but if you were just sort of pushed into that because you thought it was the cool or trendy like thing to be doing, you know, your

那是你的熱情，但如果你只是被推進去，因為你覺得那是酷的或流行的要做的事，你知道的，你

job could be automated away with AI. And so I don't know, I think the liberal arts are a really good place to start because it teaches you how to think and

的工作可能被 AI 自動化。所以我不知道，我覺得文科是很好的起點，因為它教你怎麼思考和

analyze and then you can always acquire the technical skills.

分析，然後你總是可以獲得技術技能。

>> Mhm. >> Later. >> That's what I've been saying.

嗯。之後。這就是我一直說的。

>> A book for the liberal arts. >> Yeah, >> we're talking our book all al all together, but I also could not have made it as a computer science engineer. So

為文科辯護的一本書。是啊，我們一起為自己說話，但我也無法成為電腦科學工程師。所以

>> So Holly, on our podcast, our tagline is we say we talk about money, power, and love. And for much of your career, you worked um in finance and also in very

所以 Holly，在我們的播客上，我們的標語是我們談論錢、權力和愛。你職業生涯的大部分時間，你在金融業工作，也在非常

male-dominated environments similar to us working in finance and tech.

男性主導的環境，類似於我們在金融和科技工作。

>> And so in those spaces, I'd love to hear a little bit more about power moves if you have any like what is your superpower to surviving and thriving in

所以在那些空間裡，我想多聽聽關於權力招式，如果你有的話，像是你在那些

those spaces? Um and how can I be more like you?

空間中生存和蓬勃發展的超能力是什麼？嗯，我怎麼能更像你？

>> That's sweet. I'll I'll just say a couple things that come to mind and would love to hear your thoughts on this, too. I think to a certain extent

太甜了。我只會說幾件事，也想聽聽你的想法。我覺得在某種程度上

um tech where I I don't have any experience is almost more male-dominated than finance now. So anyway would love to hear your reflections as well. Um, I think a couple couple of things have

嗯，科技——我沒有經驗——現在幾乎比金融更男性主導。所以無論如何想聽聽你的反思。嗯，我覺得幾件事

have helped. Listening well >> and part of that asking good questions >> um can be super helpful and you know finding where your own background whether it's your gender or just your different

有幫助。聽得好——其中一部分是問好問題——嗯，可以超有幫助，而且你知道的，找出你自己的背景，不管是你的性別還是隻是你不同的

perspective or you know whatever it may be can actually be an advantage to not be like everyone else. Um, I'm not underplaying the significant challenges that underrepresented groups may and do

視角或你知道的什麼，其實可以是不像其他人的優勢。嗯，我沒有低估代表性不足群體可能和確實

face because they're they're real and they're there. Uh, but there can be opportunities where you actually do have an advantage. So, I just maybe a couple examples. This probably relates more

面臨的重大挑戰，因為它們是真實的，它們存在。呃，但可能有機會，你實際上確實有優勢。所以，我只是也許幾個例子。這可能更多

towards um last company I worked at rather than my my current firm, which I think is, you know, really great and inclusive. We have about um our executive committee is at least half

關於，嗯，上一家我工作的公司，而不是我現在的公司，我覺得，你知道的，真的很棒和包容。我們有大約——我們的執行委員會至少一半

female. Um, and we're making strides, you know, really across the board and and um, having a diverse workforce, which I think is important because that's just we're in a people business

是女性。嗯，我們在各方面都在進步，嗯，有多元化的員工隊伍，我覺得這很重要，因為那就是——我們是人的行業

and we're working with the world and we want to just, you know, make sure that people are able to connect um, you know, appropriately, but still keeping a

我們和世界合作，我們想要只是，你知道的，確保人們能夠適當地連結，嗯，你知道的，但仍然保持

meritocracy at the heart of of all we do. Um but you know going back to to power moves you know I think especially just thinking about in a um in

能力主義在我們所做一切的核心。嗯，但你知道的，回到權力招式，你知道的，我覺得特別是在，嗯，在

industries and again more this is more earlier in my career when it really was more skewed in this direction >> but I was in a sales role for example

這更偏向這個方向的行業——再說這更多是我職業早期——但我在銷售角色，例如

where I was covering hedge fund managers >> which are tend to be male there's few female uh hedge fun managers out there but tend to be male um I found by asking

我覆蓋對沖基金經理——他們傾向於是男性，那裡有幾個女性——呃，對沖基金經理——但傾向於是男性，嗯，我發現透過問

them good questions and listening and maybe it was an advantage being female.

他們好問題和傾聽，也許作為女性是一個優勢。

>> Um that they could be felt they didn't need to like have a macho ego competition with me and we could just have a different type of dialogue.

嗯，他們可以覺得他們不需要像和我進行大男子競爭，我們可以有不同型別的對話。

>> Um I was able to form really strong relationships, hear what they really were trying to accomplish and then help them accomplish that really effectively.

嗯，我能夠形成非常強的關係，聽到他們真正想完成什麼，然後幫助他們非常有效地完成。

>> Um so yeah, listening and asking good questions I think is a a good place to start. You can accumulate a lot of information >> that you then figure out when to use and

嗯，所以是的，傾聽和問好問題，我覺得是一個好的起點。你可以累積很多資訊——然後你弄清楚什麼時候用，

then at some point, you know, you have a power move, but it's based on a lot of information you've collected over time and you're like, now's the moment. Okay, I'm going to do this.

然後在某個點，你知道的，你有一個權力招式，但它是基於你隨時間收集的很多資訊，你說現在是時候。好，我要做這個。

>> We often say information is power on this podcast.

我們經常在這個播客上說資訊就是力量。

>> We say that all the time. >> Yeah. And the only way you can get information is if you're actively listening >> and then you basically you ask ask the

我們一直說。是啊。而且你能得到資訊的唯一方式是如果你積極傾聯——然後你基本上問

right questions and then someone is willing to like share that information with you. So, there's like so much that goes into that.

對的問題，然後某人願意和你分享那些資訊。所以，那裡面有很多。

>> Yeah. And I think one thing I've um learned a lot from my my boss, our current CEO, is just the power of asking good questions.

是啊。而且我覺得我從我老闆，我們現任 CEO，學到很多的一件事是問好問題的力量。

>> And it sometimes you can ask them even if you think you know the whole answer and you just totally disagree with whatever the other person is saying,

而且有時你可以問，即使你覺得你知道整個答案，而且你完全不同意對方說的，

>> but it's not going to be super helpful just to say, "I completely disagree with you." You know, but you could instead ask that person a question and maybe you

但直接說「我完全不同意你」不會很有幫助。你知道的，但你可以反而問那個人一個問題，也許你

don't maybe you're you're too confident in your own view. you haven't thought of something like so you know just asking someone well did you think about this or how did you think about that

不是——也許你對自己的觀點太自信了。你沒有想到什麼——像是所以你知道的，只是問某人「好，你有沒有想過這個」或「你怎麼想那個」

>> um you can a learn but you know b maybe make your point um in a more collaborative way that you know will keep you aligned with your your

嗯，你可以學習，但你知道的，也許以更協作的方式表達你的觀點，你知道的，會讓你和你的

colleague or your client or you know whoever you're engaging with.

同事或客戶或你知道的你在互動的任何人保持一致。

>> I see this is a power move. Like instead of outright saying to someone, well, I don't agree with that, or I think you're wrong in this way, it's like framing it

我覺得這是一個權力招式。像是不是直接對某人說，好，我不同意，或我覺得你這樣是錯的，而是像是框架為

to be like, oh, well, did you think about this aspect of your argument?

像是喔，好，你有沒有想過你論點的這個方面？

>> Exactly. Exactly. And either you're going to learn something that you hadn't considered.

沒錯。沒錯。而且要麼你會學到你沒有考慮過的東西。

>> Yeah. Or you'll make them analyze it >> or they'll figure out they're wrong.

是啊。或者你會讓他們分析——或者他們會發現他們是錯的。

>> Or they'll figure out wrong and then but they'll be kind of happier to work with you maybe because you didn't sort of call them out. Um,

或者他們會發現錯了，但然後他們會更樂意和你合作，也許因為你沒有直接指責他們。嗯，

>> right. And especially like when you do this, you know, how you do it. Uh particularly in a big group, it can be powerful to ask questions rather than

對。特別是當你這樣做時，你知道的，你怎麼做。呃，特別是在一個大群體中，問問題而不是

just calling someone out, you know, aggressively. >> Um that can lead to a better team environment. One where people feel more encouraged to share their ideas.

直接激進地指責某人可以很有力。嗯，那可以導致更好的團隊環境。一個人們更被鼓勵分享他們想法的環境。

>> Yeah. >> Uh and I think that's one thing I'm really happy is getting more attention these days is just, you know, the power of of an inclusive culture to encourage

是啊。呃，我覺得一件事讓我很高興現在受到更多關注的是，你知道的，包容文化鼓勵

people to share their ideas. It's not like some nice fuzzy warm thing that we want to have. Yeah, it is that. But it's also that's where you get your best

人們分享他們的想法的力量。這不是像某種好的模糊溫暖的東西我們想要的。是的，是那個。但也是那是你得到最好的

ideas and you don't know where the best ideas are going to come from. It's often not from the really senior person who has 30 years of experience and has been

想法的地方，而且你不知道最好的想法會從哪裡來。通常不是從有 30 年經驗，一直

doing something kind of in one way. It might be from the person who just joined the firm two months ago, from a different firm, maybe a competitor

以一種方式做事的非常資深的人。可能是從兩個月前剛加入公司的人，從不同的公司，也許是競爭對手

>> who knows something that no one else knows. And so you need them to feel comfortable to share that. And I think that's where uh you know asking these

他知道一些沒有其他人知道的東西。所以你需要他們感覺舒適去分享。我覺得那就是，呃，你知道的，問這些

questions and creating that that um positive environment can be really helpful. And I would just encourage for all the um listeners out there too who are at different points in their career

問題和創造那個正面環境可以真的有幫助。我只是想鼓勵所有在不同職業階段的聽眾

like when you see these gaps even if it's a senior person that is missing something like that's can be your opportunity to really step into that

像是當你看到這些差距，即使是一個資深的人在遺漏什麼，像是那可以是你真正進入那個

gap. If you do it in a thoughtful kind of kind way, you can be really effective at it. Even if it's to someone much more senior than you, like in your role, I

差距的機會。如果你以體貼友善的方式做，你可以非常有效。即使是對比你資深得多的人，像是在你的角色中，我

think that can be very very effective. >> And this is why women are better investors statistically. Seriously, this is why because we invite input from different people because that's that

覺得那可以非常非常有效。這就是為什麼女性統計上是更好的投資者。說真的，這就是為什麼，因為我們邀請不同人的意見，因為這就是

like this is your triedand-true approach over like 20 plus years is that that's why people are willing to share with you like their ideas and like like kind of

像是這是你經過 20 多年的久經考驗的方法，就是——這就是為什麼人們願意和你分享，像是他們的想法，像是

like reveal their genius to you whereas normally they might be too intimidated to.

像是向你展示他們的天才，而通常他們可能太害怕了。

>> Yeah, I I thanks for for mentioning that. I' I've spent a lot of time on that with our investment team and now kind of thinking more. our our firm

是啊，我——謝謝你提到那個。我在那上面和我們的投資團隊花了很多時間，現在想更多。我們公司

thankfully is is you know really focused on collaboration at our core. I think having one line of business enables that. We're all trying to do the same

幸好，你知道的，真的專注於我們核心的協作。我覺得有單一業務線讓這成為可能。我們都試圖做同一件

thing which is help our clients and so you know however we can work together to to accomplish that. Um you know we really want to encourage really everyone

事，就是幫助我們的客戶，所以你知道的，我們怎麼能一起工作來完成這個。嗯，你知道的，我們真的想鼓勵真的每個人

to participate in that process. It's you know it's easier said than done. Yeah.

參與那個過程。這，你知道的，說起來容易做起來難。是啊。

Right. Um, and kind of one super mean negative thing that you say in a group meeting can set you back many months, right? Because then somebody who heard

對。嗯，而且一個你在群體會議中說的超級刻薄消極的話可以讓你退步很多個月，對吧？因為然後某個聽到

that is like, "Oh gosh, I'm not going to risk that." So, it's something you have to try every day. Um it's wonderful just being at this conference and hearing

那個的人會想「天啊，我不想冒險。」所以，這是你每天都要嘗試的事。嗯，在這個會議上聽到

what other CEOs uh you know are saying you know on this but um um you know really having a a open environment where you're able to bring up questions that maybe disrupt your business

其他 CEO 說什麼太棒了，你知道的，關於這個，但，嗯，嗯，你知道的，真的有一個開放的環境，你能夠提出可能顛覆你業務的問題

>> is really key that the world world is evolving so quickly right now. You know we have to be asking these hard questions.

是真的關鍵，世界現在演變得這麼快。你知道的，我們必須問這些困難的問題。

>> Yeah. I love it. >> Yeah. >> Well, should we move on to our special segment?

是啊。我喜歡。是啊。好，我們應該進入我們的特別環節嗎？

>> Yeah. Okay, we have a special segment.

是啊。好，我們有一個特別環節。

We have something fun. >> So, my friend um created this company called Fortune Questions where it's basically these kind of >> like icebreaker questions that come in fortune cookie format. So, we have two

我們有一些好玩的。所以，我的朋友，嗯，建立了這個叫 Fortune Questions 的公司，基本上是這些像是——像是破冰問題，以幸運餅乾的形式。所以，我們有兩個

options. One is mild questions, one is wild.

選項。一個是溫和的問題，一個是狂野的。

>> Wild questions. >> I like that. Can we do one of each?

狂野的問題。我喜歡。我們可以各一個嗎？

>> Yes, of course. >> Where should we start? Maybe mild.

是的，當然。我們從哪裡開始？也許溫和的。

>> We can start with mild. warm up with mild and then we'll go to wild.

我們可以從溫和的開始。用溫和的熱身，然後我們去狂野的。

>> Do I get to eat the cookie?

我可以吃餅乾嗎？

>> Yes, they're actually freshade. >> Oh my god.

是的，它們其實是新鮮做的。天啊。

>> So, they're really good. >> Do you trust your first or third instinct?

所以，它們真的很好。你相信你的第一直覺還是第三直覺？

>> I'm going to make you two answer this, too.

我也要讓你們兩個回答這個。

>> What? >> You're not prepared. That's not part of it.

什麼？你沒準備好。那不是計劃的一部分。

>> I think I I'd say first >> in most cases first. Um, but when I can afford to acknowledge my first and then give myself time before acting upon it, better

我覺得我——我會說第一——在大多數情況下是第一。嗯，但當我能承認我的第一直覺，然後給自己時間再行動，可能會有更好的

>> might come up with a new idea.

可能會想出新想法。

>> Yeah. How would you respond? >> For me, I would say I've been moving to now trust my first instinct because I'm used to being very analytical and like

是啊。你會怎麼回答？對我來說，我會說我現在開始相信我的第一直覺，因為我習慣非常分析性和

ruminating on things. And I think over time I've realized like no, my first instinct was right. I just wasn't I wasn't trusting it. So, >> got it. I'm moving to where you are.

反覆琢磨事情。而且我覺得隨著時間我意識到不，我的第一直覺是對的。我只是沒有相信它。所以，——知道了。我正在朝你的方向走。

>> Love it. Good. >> I trust my first instinct. I think I'm learning to also better like listen to it. Like, I always feel it, but I'm

喜歡。好。我相信我的第一直覺。我覺得我也在學習更好地聽從它。像是，我總是感覺到，但我

like, but then I always like push it down cuz I'm like, yeah, I like tend to rationalize things, but yeah, I'm also learning to trust my first instinct

像是，但然後我總是壓下去，因為我像是，是的，我傾向於合理化事情，但是的，我也在學習更相信我的第一直覺

more, but I always feel it. You know what I mean? It's just like a gut like, oh, something's not right or something's off. Um, I guess I have really strong

更多，但我總是感覺到。你知道我的意思嗎？就像是一種直覺，像是喔，有什麼不對或有什麼不對勁。嗯，我猜我有非常強的

instincts. I just need to I just need to listen to it more.

直覺。我只需要——我只需要更聽從它。

>> Yeah. Yeah. No, that's right. What some um scient scientific research I've read, you know, on it. It's not like it your first instinct is not usually not um and

是啊。是啊。不，那是對的。我讀過的一些科學研究，你知道的。你的第一直覺通常不是，嗯，

it just an emotional reaction like it's actually based on all of this subconscious information that you're processing >> that you're taking in that you may not even know it

只是一個情緒反應，它其實是基於所有這些你在處理的潛意識資訊——你在吸收的，你可能甚至不知道

>> and then it's it's you know feeding that together. Now, of course, it's not 100% right. So, where you can afford to check it, that's probably good, but I think

然後它——你知道的，把它們放在一起。現在，當然，它不是 100% 對的。所以，在你能檢查它的地方，那可能是好的，但我覺得

more often than not, it can be right.

更多時候它是對的。

>> Yeah. Okay. >> Do some wild. OH MY GOODNESS.

是啊。好。來點狂野的。天啊。

>> I'M GONNA MAKE YOU ANSWER THIS FIRST. I think what is it?

我要讓你先回答這個。我覺得是什麼？

>> What is the most outrageous thing you've done in the name of love?

你以愛的名義做過的最瘋狂的事是什麼？

>> Oh my god. >> Oh boy. >> I'll let you think about it because I I one thing I said earlier I think um >> you have is probably Yeah, I think so. I

天啊。天哪。我讓你想想，因為我——我之前說的一件事我覺得，嗯——你有——是的，我覺得是。我

mean I think moving to Brazil, >> not speaking Portuguese very well.

是說我覺得搬到巴西，不太會說葡萄牙語。

>> Yeah. like moving to a different job, same company but different job, not understanding the health care system, not you know um but loving my husband and I think loving life and adventure.

是啊。像是搬到不同的工作，同一家公司但不同工作，不瞭解醫療系統，不，你知道的，嗯，但愛我丈夫，我覺得愛生活和冒險。

Um we're like let's let's do it. So >> um that was it. And then more recently, um maybe adopting our little puppy from um a great organization called Sochi

嗯，我們像是讓我們——讓我們做吧。所以——嗯，那就是它。然後更近期，嗯，也許是從，嗯，一個叫 Sochi 的很棒的組織收養我們的小狗

Dogs that rescues dogs, you know, in Eastern Europe, including Ukraine, like on the front lines of the war. You just imagine these people who are facing themselves such adversity and are

Dogs，拯救狗，你知道的，在東歐，包括烏克蘭，像是在戰爭前線。你只是想像這些面對這麼多逆境的人

finding the time and energy and love to like go out and save stray dogs. It's just it's really incredible. Super wellrun. And um yeah, I picked them up

找到時間和精力和愛去救流浪狗。這真的很不可思議。運營得很好。而且，嗯，是的，我在

in Jersey City. They figured out how to get him here and he's just a little little sweet ball of positive energy that I get to play with every day. So

Jersey City 接他。他們想出怎麼把他帶到這裡，他只是一個可愛的正能量小球，我每天都可以和他玩。所以

>> amazing. I love that. >> So what was the question?

太棒了。我喜歡。所以問題是什麼？

>> The most outrageous thing you've done in the name of love.

你以愛的名義做過的最瘋狂的事。

>> Outrageous sounds bad. Like the crazy >> outrageous can be good. Outrageous can be good. Do you have an answer?

瘋狂聽起來像壞事。像是瘋狂的——瘋狂可以是好的。瘋狂可以是好的。你有答案嗎？

>> I have one, but it's a little bit cheesy. It's like sort of turning it on its head. Okay. I think the most outrageous thing I've done is actually

我有一個，但有點俗。像是把它反過來。好。我覺得我做過的最瘋狂的事其實是

end my engagement because for selflove and that took a really really long time to get there because we were there's a whole backstory but we were together for

結束我的訂婚，因為自愛，那花了非常非常長的時間才走到那裡，因為我們——有一個完整的背景故事——但我們在一起

eight years. So like that was I think that's the most >> good for you. Good for you.

八年。所以像是那是我覺得最——為你驕傲。為你驕傲。

>> Congratulations. >> Thank you. >> I think the most outrageous thing that I've done was not thinking straight during COVID. I don't know. Everyone was so uh like there's so much going on in

恭喜。謝謝。我覺得我做過的最瘋狂的事是在 COVID 期間沒有清醒地思考。我不知道。每個人都那麼——呃，像是有這麼多事情在

the world and I think I jumped really fast into a relationship because you know like we had social distancing and then like work was the world was melting

世界上發生，我覺得我很快跳進了一段關係，因為你知道，像是我們有社交距離，然後像是工作，世界在

down and I was just like all right let's just jump into >> you know >> fullon relationship >> full-on relationship and it was far too fast far too soon but that was the old

崩潰，我只是像是好吧，讓我們跳進——你知道——全面的關係——全面的關係，那太快太早，但那是幾年前的

me that you many years ago in my 30s I turned 30 like a month ago >> so I'm like so wise I love it.

舊我，你——許多年前在我 30 歲——我一個月前剛滿 30——所以我像是這麼明智。我喜歡。

>> Awesome. >> Well, thank you so much.

太棒了。好，非常感謝。

>> Thank you so much. I had such a blast with you, too.

非常感謝。和你們一起太開心了。