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Turning to your parents, how do you find peace, internal peace, in loving the people who made you but who also deeply hurt you?
談到你的父母，你如何找到平靜、內心的平靜，在愛著創造你但也深深傷害你的人的同時？
>> This is a conversation that I don't think anyone else is having. Jarie Chen has a resume that is untouchable.
這是我認為沒有其他人在進行的對話。Jarie Chen 的履歷是無可挑剔的。
Harvard, Stanford, nonprofit founder that saved over a million babies, honored by President Obama, the list goes on. Often people with these like perfect looking outsides come from histories of trauma. Achievement becomes
哈佛、史丹佛、非營利組織創辦人拯救了超過一百萬嬰兒、被歐巴馬總統表彰，清單還在繼續。通常外表看起來完美的人來自創傷的歷史。成就成為
a coping mechanism because we feel like we're not enough. We feel like we have to do more or be more, improve more. But when you're relying on the external, the
一種應對機制因為我們覺得我們不夠好。我們覺得我們必須做更多或變得更多、改進更多。但當你依賴外在的，
goalpost will just keep moving. Nothing's going to be good enough. I think this is the most important conversation that we're going to have on Tiger Sisters because we've been talking about finding smarter
目標柱就會一直移動。沒有什麼會足夠好。我認為這是我們在 Tiger Sisters 上要進行的最重要的對話，因為我們一直在談論更聰明的
ways to handle money and now we've got a sponsor who's built for that. SoFi has joined Tiger Sisters as our exclusive finance sponsor that we trust for all
處理金錢的方式，現在我們有一個為此而建的贊助商。SoFi 作為我們信任的獨家金融贊助商加入了 Tiger Sisters
our finance needs. They make it easy to bank, borrow, and invest all in one app and we are so excited to have them on board.
處理我們所有的金融需求。他們讓銀行、借貸和投資都在一個應用程式中變得簡單，我們很高興有他們加入。
This is one of the hardest conversations we've ever had on Tiger Sisters because it's something that we carry but we rarely talk about childhood trauma, forgiveness, and the process of healing
這是我們在 Tiger Sisters 上進行過的最困難的對話之一，因為這是我們承載但很少談論的東西——童年創傷、寬恕和從養育我們的人那裡療癒的過程。
from people who raised us. If you've ever wondered how to forgive your parents, this episode might change the way you see them and yourself. Jarie Chen has a resume that is untouchable.
如果你曾經想知道如何寬恕你的父母，這一集可能會改變你看待他們和你自己的方式。Jarie Chen 的履歷是無可挑剔的。
Harvard, Stanford, nonprofit founder that saved over a million babies, honored by President Obama. The list goes on. Her memoir, Like a Wave We Break, shares about what happens when achievement is a coping mechanism.
哈佛、史丹佛、非營利組織創辦人拯救了超過一百萬嬰兒，被歐巴馬總統表彰。清單還在繼續。她的回憶錄《像浪花一樣破碎》分享了當成就成為應對機制時會發生什麼。
>> It's about what it takes to forgive the people who broke you when they're also the people that made you and loved you.
這是關於寬恕那些打破你的人需要什麼，當他們也是創造你和愛你的人。
Trigger warning, we talk about abuse and self harm in this episode, and if you're struggling, please know that you're not alone. We've linked helplines and resources in the description. Jane Marie
觸發警告，我們在這一集中談論虐待和自殘，如果你正在掙紮，請知道你不是一個人。我們在描述中鏈接了幫助熱線和資源。Jane Marie
Chen, welcome to the Tiger Sisters podcast. >> Yay.
Chen，歡迎來到 Tiger Sisters 播客。耶。
>> Thank you for having me. >> So Jane, we're going to dive right in to our questions.
感謝你邀請我。那麼 Jane，我們要直接進入我們的問題。
>> Sure. >> So in your memoir, you describe moments of physical and verbal abuse like being hit by a belt, being slapped so hard that your glasses flew off. Many things
當然。在你的回憶錄中，你描述了身體和言語虐待的時刻，比如被皮帶打、被打到眼鏡飛出去。許多
that immigrant immigrant many things that immigrant children experience but rarely talk about. How did you find the courage to not just talk about it but to write about it in such a public way?
移民孩子經歷但很少談論的事情。你是如何找到勇氣不僅談論它，而且以這樣公開的方式寫它？
>> Well, I think I really wanted to share the journey as a way to help anyone else who has been through similar experiences and that meant sharing the whole journey
嗯，我認為我真的想分享這段旅程作為幫助任何經歷過類似經歷的人的一種方式，這意味著分享整個旅程
and the hardest part of the journey, the hardest parts of the journey. um and what had happened in my upbringing with regards to physical abuse which I didn't even recognize as abuse until probably
和旅程中最困難的部分。嗯，關於我成長過程中發生的身體虐待，我直到可能
my late 30s you know so it was a wakeup call to me >> and as I started sharing my story I met so many others who had had similar experiences
30 歲末才認識到那是虐待，你知道，所以這對我來說是一個覺醒。當我開始分享我的故事時，我遇到了很多有過類似經歷的人
>> um and that's what gave me the courage to do this it was in order to help other people you know and extend a lifeline to others who are struggling with the same
嗯，這就是給我勇氣做這件事的原因。這是為了幫助其他人，你知道，向其他正在掙紮相同
issues. You know this the the book begins 10 years into the journey of my company Embrace which builds lowcost baby incubators for preeis in developing countries. Um it was a technology that
問題的人伸出援手。你知道，這本書開始於我公司 Embrace 旅程的 10 年，它為發展中國家的早產兒製造低成本嬰兒保溫箱。嗯，這是一種
my team and I invented at Stanford back in 2008 and we we turned it into a company and then I moved to India and we made a goal to save a million babies
我和我的團隊在 2008 年在史丹佛發明的技術，我們把它變成了一家公司，然後我搬到印度，我們定了一個目標要用我們的保溫箱拯救一百萬嬰兒。
with our incubators. Um and I basically made that mission my life.
嗯，我基本上把那個使命當作我的生命。
>> So I gave my soul to this work. Um and in that process, you know, I experienced so many setbacks and challenges and really was burned out, you know, at the
所以我把我的靈魂給了這項工作。嗯，在那個過程中，你知道，我經歷了很多挫折和挑戰，真的精疲力盡，你知道，
end of this 10-year period when we faced a setback that was so big we had to shut down the company.
在工作的壓力下。我認為回顧起來，那就是強迫性成就者的樣子。
>> And at that point, I was just absolutely devastated. You know, I felt like a complete failure. And so I decided to go on a healing journey and I packed up a
我不斷地設定更高的目標，達到它們，然後立即設定更高的目標。
surfboard, a suitcase, I bought a one-way ticket to Indonesia and I threw myself into healing, you know, with the same intensity I'd once poured into into building my company. And so as I went
這不是關於慶祝或滿足。這是關於填補這個感覺不夠的空白。
through this this journey, I finally connected the dots. that feeling so powerless through my childhood.
哇。這太有洞察力了。很多我們的聽眾可能與此有關。那麼這種強迫性成就是如何表現的呢？
That's what had given me the drive, right, the fuel to help the most powerless people in the world.
嗯，它以不同的方式表現。對我來說，這是工作。我總是在工作。我無法關閉。
>> But there was a shadow side of that in that it also drove me to work to really unhealthy levels at the expense of my own mental health and well-being.
我會醒著躺在床上想著下一個要解決的問題。我覺得如果我不工作，我就沒有價值。
>> I mean, I just want to say that I respect and like venerate what you have done. so much to like put yourself out there in such a true and open way and
那也是當身體開始表現出症狀的時候。我開始有恐慌發作。我的頭髮開始脫落。我在半夜醒來心跳加速。
like really be vulnerable about your past. Like I just know you are helping so many people out there. And that's also why we were really really excited and looking forward to this conversation
這是我的身體告訴我一些事情嚴重錯誤了。
because I don't think I've ever like read a book that had that level of like honesty and exploring these topics like yours. Mhm. Yeah.
你是什麼時候意識到這與你的童年有關的？
>> And it's important it's important to to talk about it to like put it down on paper and like put it into words otherwise >> Yeah.
花了很長時間。直到我開始治療並開始向後追溯。
>> otherwise it doesn't get addressed. Before recording this episode, I was doing some reflecting and I think this is the most important conversation that we're going to have on Tiger Sisters
我意識到我的驅動力不僅僅是因為我有雄心壯志。是因為在內心深處，我覺得我必須證明我值得被愛。
because of course there's so many podcasts out there that talks about the business world and career and all these things to like uplevel, but like once you're there and reflecting on how you
這直接與我成長中收到的信息有關。表現好、成為最好、不要讓家人丟臉。
got there and often the very painful ways to do that, I'm like this is a conversation that I don't think anyone else is having. And I think it starts
而且當我不這樣做時，會有後果。所以我學會了愛是有條件的。愛是掙來的。
with you sharing so vulnerably in your book.
這是一個如此強大的實現。很多移民孩子與此有關。那麼你是如何開始療癒過程的？
>> Yeah. Thank you guys. And I I actually see this particularly with high achievers, you know, and we think, oh, people Yeah. Right. And we think, oh, people with perfect resumes,
這始於治療。找到一個好的治療師是改變遊戲規則的。
they've got it all together. >> But often people with these like perfect looking outsides come from from histories of trauma, right? And um achievement becomes a coping mechanism.
這不僅僅是談論你的問題。是理解它們的根源。
Achievement becomes a trauma response because we feel like we're not enough, right? And so we feel like we have to do more or be more improve more and we
對我來說，是理解我的父母也是他們環境的產物。他們成長在一個身體紀律是常態的時代。
completely burn out in the process. And I see this particularly with entrepreneurs with social entrepreneurs um but with also just a number of the high achieving achieving people that I'm
他們沒有工具以不同的方式教養。他們在用他們所知道的做最好的。
surrounded by. But we live in a culture in which we try to escape our pain.
這不是為他們的行為找藉口。是為了我自己的理解和療癒而將其語境化。
>> Right? The moment we feel something painful, we turn to social media, we turn to substances, we turn to our work, right? And so a lot of what I've had to
這太美麗了。那麼寬恕呢？寬恕是療癒的一部分嗎？
learn is how to really face those painful experiences and and sit with them and that's the only way through to the other side. Um and I think you know
是的，但我認為寬恕是被誤解的。寬恕不是說發生的事情是可以的。
another aspect of this is what happens in in Asian culture >> and I think there are cycles of abuse that become normalized >> because they're considered a part of the cultural norm. Mhm.
寬恕是為了你自己，不是為了另一個人。是放下讓你被困住的憤怒和怨恨。
>> And so that's why as I went through this journey, I felt it really imperative to to call it out and to be more open about this, right? So others feel more seen,
我不必宣布「我原諒你」給我的父母。是我在內心做的工作來處理痛苦並向前走。
validated, and less alone. And Jane, why why do you think it is that children of immigrants or, you know, first generation people feel that drive to achieve? It's a way for them to
這是一個強大的重新框架。那麼這如何影響了你今天和你父母的關係？
feel safe. if it's a way for them to sort of escape these other things that are going on in their lives like what what do you think is behind it?
它改變了一切。我能夠以同理心來面對他們而不是怨恨。
>> I think there's a lot I think a lot of the cultural expectation is around high achievement, right? Whether that be in school or in our careers.
我現在看到他們是經歷過自己創傷的人。我可以愛他們同時仍然為過去發生的事情感到悲傷。
>> Um I think there's also this pressure that our families gave up everything to come here, >> right? And so we we want to excel. We want to show that that was all
這對我們的關係來說很療癒。比它曾經是的更深。
worthwhile. Uh, and so we take it upon ourselves to, you know, to be the best that we can. I think that's that's all kind of tangled up in here. Um, and then
這太美麗了。對於正在經歷類似事情的人，你有什麼建議？
there's this like phenomenon, and I I see this especially in Asian culture of like nothing's good enough, >> right? And so that's certainly how I felt for most of my life and all my
首先，知道你不是一個人。很多人帶著這些童年傷口。只是我們不經常談論它們。
upbringing. And it didn't matter how many degrees I got or accolades I won or babies I saved, there was always this this void >> that nothing could fill. And so it was
第二，得到幫助。治療、支持團體、可信賴的朋友。你不必獨自面對這個。
that sense of like not enoughness which I didn't know how to articulate back then. Um but I think that was also a result of again the the abuse from my
第三，對自己有耐心。療癒不是線性的。會有好日子也會有壞日子。
childhood, right? That that as a child you can't really make sense of it. And so you you wonder, well, what's wrong with me? And then as an adult, you want
第四，記住療癒是一段旅程，不是目的地。是關於進步，不是完美。
to prove that that you're okay, that you're worthy.
這是如此強大的建議。謝謝你如此脆弱和開放地分享你的故事。
>> And so I think that's what was was driving me. And it was I really believed in the mission of the organization. And as I said, >> my pain really became my purpose,
謝謝你們邀請我。我希望這能幫助正在經歷這些的人。
>> right? It gave me so much drive to do the work that I do. And at the same time, there was this like dark shadow side of that.
它一定會的。在我們離開之前，人們在哪裡可以找到你的書和你的工作？
>> So it was both things simultaneously. Do you think the context of like coming from a background where your family or your parents gave up so much and
你可以在任何書店找到我的書《像浪花一樣破碎》。而且你可以在 Instagram 上關注我。
sacrificed so much for you to get you where you are?
太棒了。感謝你加入我們。這是一次不可思議的對話。
>> Do you think that is a helpful driver or is it a lot slash too much weight >> to hold and carry?
謝謝你們。
>> I think it's both. I think it's both.
好的，這是我們 Tiger Sisters 上進行過的最情感化的對話之一。我希望它引起了你們的共鳴。
And I think um you know there's this pressure that creates healthy drive and then there's the point where it tips into being unhealthy drive, >> right? And so in my case, there was the
如果你正在經歷類似的事情，請知道你不是一個人。我們在描述中有資源。
drive of like wanting to do something good for healthy reasons and then there was this other part of like needing to prove. And so I think once it gets into
如果你喜歡這一集，請訂閱 Tiger Sisters 播客。在 Spotify 和 Apple Podcasts 上給我們五星評價。
that needing to prove category or feeling like you should be doing something, that's when it can feel unhealthy. And that's where I think we need to develop that awareness around
分享就是關愛。感謝收聽。我們下次見。
like what our motivations are and is this healthy for me just like from a me mental health and well-being perspective.
拜拜。
>> Yeah. I think Sheree and I, we actually talked about this topic a little bit on a really really early episode of Tiger Sisters, like >> first season ever or something. I think
是啊。我覺得 Sheree 和我，我們其實在 Tiger Sisters 很早期的一集談過這個話題，像是——第一季還是什麼的。我覺得
maybe the way that we put it is that you kind of feel like the weight of all of your ancestors and like all of the generations that came before you. Yeah.
也許我們說的方式是你感覺到所有祖先的重量，像是所有在你之前的世代。是啊。
>> And it's like it's helpful to know your family history, but sometimes when parts of the family history can feel so heavy, and I think this is true for like a lot
而且，像是知道你的家族歷史是有幫助的，但有時家族歷史的某些部分會感覺很沉重，我覺得這對很多
of people, a lot of communities, not just AAPI, but >> people who have some sort of history of like overcoming or like trauma or like escaping a terrible situation in their
人、很多社區來說都是真的，不只是 AAPI，而是那些有克服或創傷或逃離可怕處境歷史的人，
ancestral chain, like you almost feel like you owe it to them. You're like, I am living out my ancestors dreams like even just in my day-to-day life. And it's like, how can I not
你幾乎覺得你欠他們。你會想，我在日常生活中實現了祖先的夢想。像是，我怎麼能不
like make it up to them? Like, I need to do the most with my life. I need to make the most of my life. I need to save a
補償他們？我需要用我的生命做最多的事。我需要充分利用我的生命。我需要拯救
million babies because I can, right? >> And they never could. So, like, >> right.
一百萬個嬰兒，因為我可以，對吧？而他們永遠不能。所以，像是——對。
>> It's you feel almost this this like level this like imperative inside you.
你感覺到像是內心有這種程度的使命感。
>> Yeah. >> Um >> I think that's right. Yeah. Achievement also ends up becoming safety, >> right? because we grow up in these environments where we're we're we're wanting to belong and we don't
是啊。嗯。我覺得那是對的。成就也變成了安全感，對吧？因為我們在這些環境中長大，我們想要歸屬感，我們不
necessarily like we were the only Asian family, one of the only Asian families in my in my neighborhood.
一定——像是我們是唯一的亞洲家庭，我鄰居裡唯一的幾個亞洲家庭之一。
>> Yeah. >> Right. So, we didn't we didn't belong.
是啊。對。所以，我們不屬於那裡。
My parents didn't speak English. I I moved to the US when I was four years old. I didn't speak a word of English.
我父母不說英語。我四歲時搬到美國。我一句英語都不會說。
And so, you feel like an outcast and um achieving gives you a sense of belonging, right? And so, there's kind of a safety in that that we're also
所以，你覺得自己是局外人，成就給你一種歸屬感，對吧？那裡面有一種安全感，我們也在
seeking. I want to talk a little bit more about your work with Bessel Van Derkulk, the author of The Body Keep Score. You wrote in your memoir that the
追求。我想再多談談你和 Bessel Van Der Kolk 的工作，《心靈的傷，身體會記住》的作者。你在回憶錄中寫道，
imprint of your father's violence was lodged in your body, stuck in a survival loop. Can you explain what that means and how does trauma actually live in the body?
你父親暴力的印記留在你的身體裡，卡在生存迴圈中。你能解釋這是什麼意思嗎？創傷實際上是如何存在於身體裡的？
>> Sure. Yeah. I think this was one of the big turning points of my healing journey was reading The Body Keeps the Score by Messel Vanderolk. And up until that
當然。是啊。這是我療癒旅程的一個重大轉折點，就是讀《心靈的傷，身體會記住》。在那之前
point, I I think I had the belief that what happens in your past, just leave it in the past, right? Why why deal with it? And I remember um in business school
我相信過去發生的事，就讓它留在過去，對吧？為什麼要處理它？我記得在商學院
actually, I saw a therapist and he wanted to dive into my childhood. And I was like, I don't want to talk about that. I'm not I don't want to play the
其實我去看了心理師，他想深入我的童年。我說我不想談那個。我不想扮演
role of the victim or villainize my parents.
受害者的角色或把我父母妖魔化。
>> I have a life now. Let's move on.
我現在有生活了。讓我們繼續前進。
>> Um and what I >> That's such a classic like coping mechanism, >> right? Exactly.
嗯，我——那是這麼經典的應對機制，對吧？沒錯。
>> It like helps you survive. >> It helps you survive. you'd rather just kind of sweep it under the rug.
它像是幫助你生存。它幫助你生存。你寧願把它掃到地毯下面。
>> Yeah. >> And so reading this book was like completely eye opening for me >> because what I learned is trauma isn't just something that lives in your past.
是啊。所以讀這本書對我來說完全是大開眼界，因為我學到的是創傷不只是活在你的過去。
>> It's actually something that rewires your brain and your nervous system >> such that you bring the past into the present and it affects every part of your life. Right? Trauma gets stored in
它實際上重新連接了你的大腦和神經系統，使你把過去帶到現在，影響你生活的每一部分。創傷就是這樣儲存在
your body in that way. Trauma is also stored in the lyic system. So this is the part of our brain that is responsible for emotions, for connections,
你的身體裡。創傷也儲存在邊緣系統。這是我們大腦負責情緒、連結的部分，
>> not thinking. The thinking part of our brain is the neoortex.
不是思考。我們大腦的思考部分是新皮質。
>> And so this this is a big realization I had for me. Talk therapy never worked because you can't talk your way out of trauma.
這是我的一個重大認識。談話治療從來沒用，因為你不能用說的方式擺脫創傷。
>> You have to feel your way through it.
你必須用感受的方式穿過它。
>> And that was something again that was that was so eye openening for me. Even on this healing journey, I basically like put on my CEO hat and I wanted to
那對我來說又是這麼大開眼界。即使在這個療癒旅程中，我基本上戴上我的 CEO 帽子，我想
try every healing modality. We had a spreadsheet of all >> things.
嘗試每一種療癒方式。我們有一個所有東西的試算表。
>> If something didn't work, I would pivot to the next thing. And I wanted to find, you know, that magic elixir that was going to fix me.
如果某個東西沒用，我會轉向下一個。我想找到那個能修復我的神奇靈藥。
>> And what I learned is that instead of doing more, I needed to slow down.
我學到的是，與其做更多，我需要放慢腳步。
>> And I needed to feel I needed to feel my heartbreak. I needed to feel my fear, my anger.
我需要感受，我需要感受我的心碎。我需要感受我的恐懼、我的憤怒。
>> Yeah. >> All of it. Everything I'd been running away from, right? And so it wasn't until I I did that and and and did that through the help of teachers, healers,
是啊。所有的。我一直逃避的一切，對吧？所以直到我在老師、療癒師、朋友的幫助下做到了，
friends who created a safe space for me to go there.
他們為我創造了一個安全的空間讓我去那裡。
>> That's when my healing journey truly began.
那時我的療癒旅程才真正開始。
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I really empathized when I was reading this part of your memoir because I am such a doer and fixer. I have like such a fixer mentality. I'm like, "Okay,
是啊。我讀這部分回憶錄時真的很有同感，因為我就是這麼一個行動派和修復者。我有這麼強的修復者心態。我會想「好，
whether at work or in a relationship or anything, I'm like, okay, here's a challenge. How do I fix it?" And like, "What are the top five things that I can
不管是在工作還是感情或任何事情，我會想，好，這是挑戰。我怎麼修復它？」還有「我能做的前五件事是
do?" Like, you know, and AB test them and go through all of them, see if they work and pivot if they don't. So, like when I was reading this part of your
什麼？」像是，AB 測試它們，一個個試，看看有沒有用，沒用就換方向。所以，當我讀你
memoir, I was like, "This is so me." And it turns out the solution is not or one of the solutions is not to be you know bringing my product manager CEO momentum
回憶錄的這部分時，我想「這就是我。」結果解決方案不是把我的產品經理 CEO 動力
into it but actually slowing down is so hard and quite possibly the solution to turning inwards.
帶進去，而是放慢腳步很難，而且很可能是向內轉的解決方案。
>> Yeah. Yeah. And it's hard especially because we disconnect from our emotions as a survival mechanism. Yeah.
是啊。是啊。這很難，特別是因為我們作為生存機制斷開了我們的情緒。是啊。
>> Right. When we're younger because we it's too painful to feel those things.
對。當我們年輕時，因為感受那些東西太痛苦了。
Well, and also because when you're younger, you don't have the you don't have the tools to process it.
好，而且因為你年輕時，你沒有工具來處理它。
Like you don't know what to do with those feelings. So like kind of I think the safest thing is to like put them away.
像是你不知道怎麼處理那些感受。所以我覺得最安全的事就是把它們收起來。
>> You don't know how to productively >> process them. Yeah. I think >> Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So, as an adult, it's like learning all of that again,
你不知道怎麼有效地處理它們。是啊。所以，作為成年人，就是重新學習所有這些，
you know, and and there's such beauty in that because that's what makes us human and alive, >> you know, is is being able to reach into the depths of those emotions.
你知道的，那裡面有這麼多美，因為那就是讓我們成為人和活著的東西，能夠觸及情緒的深處。
>> And there's so much wisdom to our emotions.
而且我們的情緒有這麼多智慧。
>> Is this what is this what people call inner child work?
這是不是人們說的內在小孩工作？
>> Well, yes, we can get to that, too.
嗯，是的，我們也可以談那個。
Yeah, that's part of it. I think the other really helpful part of my healing journey was discovering something called parts work or internal family systems.
是啊，那是其中一部分。我覺得我療癒旅程中另一個非常有幫助的部分是發現一種叫做部分工作或內在家庭系統的東西。
And this is a therapeutic modality that's based on the premise that we all consist of a multitude of parts, right?
這是一種治療方式，基於我們都由很多部分組成的前提，對吧？
So you guys might have the overachiever part, the control freak, the perfectionist, the inner critic. You know, I'm making this all up, but we all have these.
所以你們可能有過度成就者的部分、控制狂、完美主義者、內在批評者。你知道的，我在瞎編，但我們都有這些。
Sounds plausible. >> Yeah, it doesn't sound that made up.
聽起來合理。是啊，聽起來不是瞎編的。
>> So, we have these parts that are there to protect us >> and they're there to protect us from the parts that carry more painful emotions like shame, rejection, abandonment,
所以，我們有這些部分來保護我們，它們保護我們免受那些承載更痛苦情緒的部分，像是羞恥、拒絕、遺棄，
right? And so, the goal of this practice is to recognize these different parts of ourselves. I had this like warrior part that one of my exes nicknamed Jangus Khan.
對吧？所以，這個練習的目標是認識我們自己的這些不同部分。我有一個戰士部分，我的一個前任給它取名叫成吉思汗。
>> >> But the goal is to to um recognize and have compassion for each of these parts rather than to shame or to banish them to understand that they've all played a
但目標是認識並對每一個部分有同情心，而不是羞辱或驅逐它們，理解它們都在我們
role in in our life, right? And so how do we develop selfacceptance and self-compassion based on this? And what I learned through this process was that part of me that was all about
生活中扮演了角色，對吧？那我們怎麼基於這個發展自我接納和自我同情？我通過這個過程學到的是，我那個想
trying to, you know, do more and achieve more and and save the world, >> that was protecting the part of me that that never felt like I was enough. You
做更多、成就更多和拯救世界的部分，那是在保護我從來不覺得自己夠好的那部分。
know, that very young part of me. >> And so really pivotal part of my healing journey was having a relationship, developing a relationship with that part
你知道的，那個非常年輕的我的部分。所以我療癒旅程中真正關鍵的部分是和那部分
of myself. And for most of my life, I wanted the rest of the world to show this part of myself that I was worthy.
自己建立關係。大部分的人生，我想讓世界其他人向這部分的我展示我是有價值的。
>> That's what all the external achievements were about. But when you're relying on the external, the goalpost will just keep moving. Nothing's going to be good enough, right? Everything
那就是所有外在成就的意義。但當你依賴外在，目標線會不斷移動。什麼都不夠好，對吧？所有
you're seeking externally, you have to find internally.
你在外在尋找的，你必須在內在找到。
>> Yeah. I think we have a lot of people in our community that I think are probably also really high achieving and can be really hard on themselves. So like what
是啊。我覺得我們社群中有很多人可能也是高成就者，可能對自己很苛刻。那
is something that they could do today to like stop being so hard on themselves and show themselves that level of like compassion that you say is important for for healing and growing?
他們今天可以做什麼來停止對自己這麼苛刻，展示你說的對療癒和成長很重要的那種自我同情？
>> Yeah. Well, this is where coming back to your question about the inner child work. Um, I have a a picture of myself on my desk as a five-year-old
是啊。好，這就回到你關於內在小孩工作的問題。嗯，我書桌上有一張五歲的我的照片，
>> and I will literally just have conversations with this five-year-old me, >> you know, and and at one point in my healing journey and this is through Bessel's retreat. So, to come back to
我真的會和這個五歲的我對話，你知道的，在我療癒旅程的某個時刻，這是通過 Bessel 的靜修。所以，回到
Bessel with my little overachiever hat on, I after I read the book, I became so obsessed with him that I stalked him until he agreed to become my therapist.
Bessel，戴著我的過度成就者小帽子，讀完那本書後，我太迷戀他了，我一直纏著他直到他同意成為我的心理師。
Yeah. >> And so did some like really important work with him over the last couple years. But at one of his retreats, he did something called um a psycho drama.
是啊。所以過去幾年和他做了一些非常重要的工作。但在他的一次靜修中，他做了一個叫心理劇的東西。
So this is a group uh healing like modality where you pick people in the group to play the role of your parents and they enact what happened and then
這是一種團體療癒方式，你選擇群體中的人扮演你父母的角色，他們演出發生的事，然後
you go back and you play you you find new people to play the role of your ideal parents.
你回去找新的人扮演你理想父母的角色。
>> And the idea is to give yourself um the experience of a more loving or nurturing alternative to what happened. And so I watched this happen at Bessel's retreat
這個想法是給自己一個比發生的事更有愛或更滋養的替代體驗。所以我在 Bessel 的靜修中看到這個
and I was like I became obsessed. I was like this is the thing that's going to fix me. If I just heard the right words from the ideal father
我變得很著迷。我想這就是能修復我的東西。如果我只是從理想父親那裡聽到正確的話
>> I you know I would be whole and free. So I went around looking for the perfect ideal father. You know and at one point I recruited a man who looked like Santa
我就會完整和自由。所以我到處找完美的理想父親。你知道，有一次我招募了一個長得像聖誕老人的人
Claus to play the role of my ideal father. Turns out the big jolly white man was not my ideal father.
扮演我理想父親的角色。結果那個大白胖子不是我理想的父親。
Um, but in the in the last chapter of the book, I talk about like I I I recruited a friend to play this role. I wrote out every line that I wanted him
嗯，但在書的最後一章，我談到——我招募了一個朋友扮演這個角色。我寫下了我想讓他
to say to me. >> And and so he did this. He said all these lines >> and I felt nothing. You know, I felt nothing. And so I took this picture of
對我說的每一句話。所以他這樣做了。他說了所有這些臺詞，我什麼都沒感覺到。所以我拿了這張
myself as a 5-year-old and I took that piece of paper and I read every line to that little girl. I just said, "You're enough.
五歲的我的照片和那張紙，我把每一句話讀給那個小女孩聽。我說「你夠好了。
you're worthy. You know, I'm so sorry that happened to you.
你是有價值的。你知道的，發生在你身上的事我很抱歉。
>> Um, and I said all the things to this little girl that I wished someone else had said to me.
嗯，我對這個小女孩說了所有我希望別人對我說的話。
>> And it was only when I said those things to myself that I finally felt something, >> you know, and I realize that again, all the things we're looking for from other
只有當我對自己說這些話時，我才終於感覺到什麼，我意識到再一次，所有我們從其他
people have to come from within. So, how do we develop that relationship with ourselves, right? And that for me that has literally been having these conversations with me as as a child. And
人那裡尋找的東西必須來自內在。那我們怎麼發展和自己的關係，對吧？對我來說那真的就是和小時候的我對話。
I've become like parts work is is something that's been so helpful to me.
我變得——像部分工作是對我非常有幫助的東西。
It's something I recommend to everybody. So for people who are interested, there's a wonderful book called No Bad Parts that I recommend. Um on my website there's a bunch of free resources
這是我推薦給每個人的東西。對有興趣的人，有一本很棒的書叫《No Bad Parts》我推薦。我的網站上有很多免費資源，
including u an exercise around parts work that people can download and try on themselves. Um, but those that practice has been the most groundbreaking for me in terms of self-compassion.
包括一個關於部分工作的練習，人們可以下載自己嘗試。但那個練習對我在自我同情方面是最具突破性的。
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我們在這個節目上談了很多關於積累財富的事，最簡單、最強大的方法之一其實是讓你的錢賺利息。但
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事情是這樣，大多數銀行給你幾乎沒有，一點點百分比。同時，他們用你的存款賺錢。感謝今天的贊助商 SoFi，你可以扭轉這個。
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條款適用。開始讓你的錢工作。前往 sofi.com/tigersisters 或點擊下面的連結了解更多並開始。
in turning to your family and your parents, how do you find peace, internal peace um in loving the people who who made you but who also deeply hurt you?
轉向你的家庭和父母，你如何找到平靜，內心的平靜，在愛那些創造了你但也深深傷害了你的人時？
>> Yeah, I think for me that was really um having compassion for my family history was a really big part of this writing process. And in the book, I explore
是啊，對我來說，對我的家族歷史有同情心真的是這個寫作過程的很大一部分。在書中，我探索
the way that my parents grew up, what happened to them. And so I started to understand the way that seeps into family systems and into lineages, >> right? And having a great deal of
我父母的成長方式，發生在他們身上的事。所以我開始理解那如何滲透進家庭系統和世系，對吧？
compassion for both my ancestry, my history, you know, the history of the country, the history of my parents, all of those things. Um, and so what it's
對我的祖先、我的歷史、國家的歷史、我父母的歷史，所有這些都有很大的同情心。那讓我能夠
allowed me to do is is to have an understanding and to have compassion.
做的是理解並有同情心。
Um, and that doesn't make certain behaviors right. You know, I don't condone abuse of any kind, but but I have an open heart towards my family, you know, and I have peace with my
嗯，那不會讓某些行為變得正確。我不支持任何形式的虐待，但我對我的家人敞開心扉，我和我的
parents, and I know they did the best they could within the within the means that they had, within the context that they that they grew up in. And so that
父母和平共處，我知道他們在他們擁有的資源內、在他們成長的背景下盡了最大努力。
was really really important to me to understand their whole stories. And my practice then is how do I both have boundaries for myself and be openhearted to do both things simultaneously.
那對我來說真的非常重要，要理解他們完整的故事。然後我的練習是我如何既為自己設定界限又敞開心扉，同時做到這兩件事。
>> It's really challenging to be able to hold both at the same time.
同時持有這兩者真的很有挑戰性。
>> Yeah, it's really challenging to be able to hold both. And part of that for me has been tuning into my body in terms of like what feels right and what doesn't
是啊，同時持有這兩者真的很有挑戰性。對我來說，部分是關於調頻到我的身體，感受什麼是對的什麼不對。
feel right. Mhm. >> And so when I'm around certain behaviors that that feel toxic, I feel that now. We talked earlier about kind of disconnecting from emotions now
嗯。當我週圍有某些感覺有毒的行為時，我現在能感覺到。我們之前談過斷開情緒的連結，現在
my body I tune into that and I start contracting and I realize, okay, I don't want to be around these behaviors and then I have the choice to not be right.
我的身體會調頻到那個，我開始收縮，我意識到，好，我不想在這些行為週圍，然後我有選擇不在那裡。
And so it's kind of tuning in to what's right for me as I decide what are my boundaries. Um, and at the same time like practicing that openheartedness,
所以這有點像是調頻到什麼對我是對的，當我決定我的界限是什麼。同時練習敞開心扉，
which I think is so important because ultimately that's what gives you inner peace, right? When you're angry and resentful, and by the way, I think those are really important emotions to feel
我覺得這很重要，因為最終那給你內心平靜，對吧？當你憤怒和怨恨時，順便說一下，我覺得那些是真的很重要的情緒去感受
and process. But when you kind of carry on carry hold that resentment, um, you hurt yourself in the process. And I think my greatest freedom has been feeling all of those things and then
和處理。但當你持續持有那種怨恨，你在過程中傷害了自己。我覺得我最大的自由是感受所有這些然後
being able to let them go. H >> one of the big turning points that you talk about in your book is when you and your younger sister actually sort of
能夠放下它們。你在書中談到的一個重大轉折點是當你和你妹妹其實第一次
confronted your your family about this for the first time and like you kind of said this was my experience. This is why it wasn't okay.
面對你的家人，你有點說這是我的經歷。這就是為什麼這是不對的。
>> Um like actually having that conversation. Do you think that now that the context has changed for your family or for people's family members like what is the level of sort of expectation that
像是真的有那個對話。你覺得現在你的家庭的背景已經改變了，你對他們
you have of them to like develop themselves and grow versus just kind of holding the onus on yourself and being like you know what I can control myself
發展自己和成長的期望是什麼，相對於只是把責任放在自己身上，像是我能控制自己
I can have my boundaries h yeah how do you think about those two things >> yes that's a really great question um I remember uh one of my mentors my my
我可以有我的界限。是啊，你怎麼想這兩件事？是的，那是個很好的問題。我記得，我的一個導師，我的
leader leadership coach, um, Diana Chapman. She's the founder of the the conscious leadership group. She was the one who said to me, "You have to talk to your parents." >> Mhm.
領導力教練，Diana Chapman。她是有意識領導力團體的創辦人。她是那個對我說「你必須和你父母談」的人。
>> And I was like, "No, that would never happen." You know how Asian parents are like >> talking with them?
我說「不，那不會發生的。」你知道亞洲父母怎樣——和他們談？
>> Yeah. Right. About like deep emotion. Yeah. Like that's crazy. I was like, "That's never going to happen." And so >> ability where >> Yeah. So she kept like encouraging me to
是啊。對。關於深層情緒。是啊。那太瘋狂了。我說「那永遠不會發生的。」所以她一直鼓勵我
do this. And then I remember what really kind of pushed me over the edge in terms of having the courage, which was um about maybe this was like six years ago,
做這個。然後我記得真正把我推過邊緣的，在鼓起勇氣方面，是大約六年前，
five or six years ago, a friend that I had grown up with, he was a year above me in high school, also Taiwanese American, um and I knew there was violence in
五六年前，一個和我一起長大的朋友，他比我高一屆，也是臺灣裔美國人，我知道他們家有暴力。
their home. He took his life >> and it really woke me up to something.
他自殺了，這真的讓我驚醒了一些事。
And I started to realize that my silence was complicity.
我開始意識到我的沉默是共謀。
And if I didn't raise this issue with my parents and with the community at large, then I was complicit in what was happening, right? And again, in these cycles of abuse.
如果我不向我父母和更大的社區提出這個問題，那我就是在共謀正在發生的事，對吧？在這些虐待的循環中。
And so I decided to talk to my parents and it was super scary, right? It was like the scariest thing that I've ever done. Um, and as I did it, the the way I
所以我決定和我父母談，這超級可怕，對吧？這是我做過最可怕的事。當我這樣做時，我
prepared for it was to really remind myself, and again, this this uh Diana, my leadership coach, said, "This is not about changing your parents. It's about taking the hand of that little girl and
準備的方式是真的提醒自己，Diana，我的領導力教練說，「這不是要改變你的父母。是要牽著那個小女孩的手
standing up for her, >> right?" And so, it was more Yeah. Which is >> Damn.
為她站出來，對吧？」所以，更多的是——是啊。這是——哇。
>> Also, >> that's a lot. >> Yeah.
而且——那是很多。是啊。
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, and so that was that's that was the point of that exercise.
是啊。是啊。是啊。所以，那就是那個練習的目的。
Like I didn't go into it thinking my parents are going to change. I I know who they are who they are. Yeah.
像是我沒有帶著我父母會改變的想法進去。我知道他們是誰。是啊。
>> Um a and they've also tried to like >> hear me and and and listen, you know, but >> I didn't walk into that wi with the expectation that suddenly, you know,
他們也試著聽我說，傾聽，但我沒有帶著突然一切會一夜之間改變的期望走進去。
everything was going to change overnight. But I did feel that it was really important for me to establish that relationship with myself such that I could trust myself.
但我確實覺得對我來說很重要的是建立和自己的那種關係，這樣我可以信任自己。
>> Okay. >> Right. And so that was the most important thing that came out of that.
好。對。那就是從那裡出來最重要的事。
So your goal for that was more to be listened to and to have that actual dialogue as opposed to necessarily being like having any expectations of the other person um coming out of the
所以你那個的目標更多是被傾聽和有那個實際的對話，而不是一定對對方有任何期望。
conversation. >> Yeah. And I think everyone's on their own journey, right? We can only control our part of this. Yeah.
是啊。而且我覺得每個人都在自己的旅程上，對吧？我們只能控制我們的部分。是啊。
>> When when we expect someone else to behave a certain way and they don't, >> that creates great disappointment and and suffering. And so what I believe is
當我們期望別人以某種方式表現而他們沒有，那會造成很大的失望和痛苦。所以我相信的是
like the best I can do is put my truth out there.
我能做的最好的是把我的真相說出來。
>> And the more I put my truth out there, the more others can stand in their own truth.
我越是把我的真相說出來，其他人就越能站在他們自己的真相中。
>> Yeah. >> Right. And that's that's the best I can do. I think that's something that can be applied not only to relationships with your your your family and your parents,
是啊。對。那就是我能做的最好的。我覺得那不只可以應用到和家人、父母的關係，
but also relationships with friends, relationships with, you know, your your partner. Yeah.
也可以應用到和朋友的關係、和伴侶的關係。是啊。
>> Like that's something, >> yeah, I think gets sort of debated a lot, like expecting someone to change versus >> putting that I guess onus more on yourself or or just not putting that
像是那經常被辯論，像是期望某人改變相對於把那個責任更多放在自己身上，或者不把那個
onus on them >> or speaking your truth. My interpretation actually of what Jane said was less being like listened to or heard and more just speaking and just
責任放在他們身上或者說出你的真相。我對 Jane 說的話的解讀其實不是被傾聽或被聽到，而更多只是說
for yourself and for your inner child like standing up for yourself and if the other party wants to listen to you whether it's a parent or a partner or
為你自己和你的內在小孩，像是為自己站出來，如果對方想聽你，不管是父母還是伴侶還是
whatever like that's kind of on them like they can or cannot but like at least you've said your piece and you've stood up for your inner child. Like I
什麼，像是那是他們的事，他們可以或不可以，但至少你說了你的話，你為你的內在小孩站出來了。
think that is probably so helpful for um >> self-reflection >> like that in itself is the therapeutic modality.
我覺得那對自我反思可能非常有幫助——像是那本身就是治療方式。
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Is the saying it out loud to the person >> whether or not they're actually even listening or absorbing it is kind of your takeaway.
是啊。是對那個人大聲說出來——不管他們是否真的在聽或吸收，那是你的收穫。
>> Yeah. Because they might not have the capacity to absorb or listen and that's not really on you.
是啊。因為他們可能沒有能力吸收或傾聽，那真的不是你的問題。
>> That's right. Yeah. >> I think that's absolutely right. But there's something about speaking our truth out loud, right? especially when it's painful. There's just some there's
沒錯。是啊。我覺得那絕對正確。但大聲說出我們的真相有一些力量，特別是當它很痛苦時。
some power to that. And I think it allows us coming back to this idea of self uh acceptance and self-compassion, you know, again, when we when we are
力量。我覺得它讓我們回到這個自我接納和自我同情的概念，再一次，當我們
able to do that, it allows us to accept all these parts of ourselves.
能夠做到這個，它讓我們接受我們自己的所有這些部分。
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I often think about the balance of obligation and boundaries. I'm still figuring that out >> because I know holidays are coming up
是啊。我經常思考責任和界限之間的平衡。我還在摸索——因為我知道假期要來了
and people are going to be around their families whether or not you want to.
不管你想不想，人們都會和家人在一起。
Like you might go home and it's often really hard for people to establish boundaries with their families if that's not something they grew up knowing how to do.
像是你可能會回家，如果那不是你從小就知道怎麼做的事，人們通常很難和家人建立界限。
>> Yeah. No, I think that's absolutely right. And and it's very hard to establish boundaries with family because we want to love our families, you know,
是啊。不，我覺得那絕對正確。而且和家人建立界限非常難，因為我們想愛我們的家人，
and and the more we can say no to certain things, the stronger our yeses also become.
我們越是能對某些事情說不，我們的肯定也就越有力。
>> And so I think that that that's been really healthy for me from a family perspective is like when I have healthy boundaries for myself, then I can engage with my family more wholeheartedly
我覺得從家庭角度來說，這對我來說真的很健康，像是當我對自己有健康的界限時，我可以更全心全意地和家人互動
>> because I don't have kind of that underlying angst or resentment.
因為我沒有那種潛在的焦慮或怨恨。
>> Yeah. >> Right. So again, this has been like a a new practice for me to tune into. What does that feel like? One of the most useful practices, and again, this is
是啊。對。所以再一次，這對我來說是一個新的練習，去調頻到那感覺像什麼？最有用的練習之一，再一次，這是
this is something I've learned through like leadership coaching and so and now that I've like transition into leadership coaching, something I love to teach, and it's this concept of what is
我通過領導力教練學到的，現在我轉向領導力教練，這是我喜歡教的東西，這是什麼
a whole body? Yes. Oh, >> right. So, think about something in your life that you really wanted to do. Maybe it's a trip you wanted to go on, a
是全身肯定？喔，對。所以，想想你生活中真的想做的事。也許是你想去的旅行，
friend you wanted to see, a meal you wanted to eat. What does that feel like in your body, right? When when your head, your heart, and your gut are all aligned.
你想見的朋友，你想吃的一頓飯。那在你身體裡感覺怎樣？當你的頭腦、心和直覺都一致時。
>> And for me, that often feels like a straight line of energy just up and down my body and everything's like almost like, you know, feels effervescent and I feel energy lifting upwards, right?
對我來說，那通常感覺像是一條直線的能量上下穿過我的身體，一切像是——幾乎像是，感覺像氣泡，我感覺能量向上提升。
That's a whole body. Yes. >> So, anything that doesn't feel like that, you have to question, do I really want to do this?
那是全身肯定。所以，任何不是那種感覺的，你必須問，我真的想做這個嗎？
>> That's a high standard. >> That's a very high standard.
那是個很高的標準。那是個非常高的標準。
>> That's a very high standard. >> Yeah. And it doesn't always mean no you don't. But it's just pause and question yourself.
那是個非常高的標準。是啊。而且這不總是意味著不。但只是暫停並問自己。
>> Yeah. Like why? To what end? >> To what end? Right. And what is this telling me? So I'll give you an example.
是啊。像是為什麼？目的是什麼？對。這告訴我什麼？所以我給你一個例子。
Um I've been on book tour the last six weeks. And when my book came out, I went to New York for an event like two or three days later. Uh and I had an
我過去六週在做新書巡迴。當我的書出版時，我在兩三天後去紐約參加一個活動。我有
opportunity actually to do three events on that day.
機會在那天做三個活動。
>> Old me, no problem. I would have done all three events and just been wiped.
以前的我，沒問題。我會做所有三個活動然後筋疲力盡。
Yeah. >> Right. But tuning into my body, I was like, I felt that contraction. It wasn't a full body yes, right? And so I had to
是啊。對。但調頻到我的身體，我感覺到那種收縮。那不是全身肯定，對吧？所以我必須
really ask myself, do I want to do this or not? Right? Is this going to be healthy for me? Am I going to burn out the very beginning of my book tour? And
真的問自己，我想做這個嗎？這對我健康嗎？我會在新書巡迴一開始就燒盡嗎？
I ultimately decided, and I was very proud of myself for this. Um, but I ultimately decided to do one event and that was it. And I'm so glad I did that,
我最終決定，我為自己很驕傲。但我最終決定做一個活動就好。我很高興我這樣做了，
right? And this is so contrary to like the overachiever part of me, but having that awareness of okay, that doesn't feel quite right or aligned.
對吧？這和我那個過度成就者的部分太相反了，但有那個意識，好，那感覺不太對或一致。
>> So then pausing and asking yourself, do you really want to do this?
然後暫停並問自己，你真的想做這個嗎？
>> And then you might decide yes or no, but at least having that moment of pausing, >> yes, >> right, you have more intention and and consideration. And I think that again is
然後你可能決定是或不是，但至少有那個暫停的時刻，是的，對，你有更多意圖和考慮。我覺得那再一次是
what leads to a health healthier mental state. I think it's kind of funny that like for people who identify as overachievers like the achievement is to not overachieve. Yeah.
導致更健康心理狀態的原因。我覺得很好笑，對那些認同自己是過度成就者的人來說，成就是不過度成就。
>> Like the is that like instead of doing three you did one like that was your version of like outperforming >> you know but it's totally true.
像是不是做三個而是做一個，像是那是你表現更好的版本，但這完全是對的。
>> It makes so much sense. >> Yeah. If your like default state is to be like yeah I can do it. I can do more.
太有道理了。是啊。如果你的默認狀態是像是好我可以做到。我可以做更多。
Like I can always >> achieve more. I can always do more. I can I have to be the best and perform the best and like stretch myself as much as possible. That's not healthy.
像是我總是可以成就更多。我總是可以做更多。我必須是最好的、表現最好、盡可能拉伸自己。那不健康。
>> No, it's not healthy. And guys, like I have to say at the end of that, you know, 10-year period when we had to shut down Embrace, I was in the
不，那不健康。大家，我必須說在那十年期末，我們不得不關閉 Embrace 時，我處於人生最糟糕的
worst place of my life. >> Like I had a complete mental and physical breakdown. Menty B.
狀態。像是我完全心理和身體崩潰了。Menty B。
>> Yes, we Yes, totally. Menty B. It was like I didn't even know that my mind could be that fragile. Like up until that point, I thought I'm invincible. I
是的。Menty B。就像是我甚至不知道我的心智可以這麼脆弱。在那之前，我覺得我是無敵的。
could take on anything, you know? And then that happened and I was like, "Oh, wow. It it took me probably a good year and a half to recover from that." And I
可以承受任何事，你知道嗎？然後那發生了，我說「哇。我大概花了一年半才從那裡恢復。」
realized through that that like when we drive that hard, you know, in unhealthy ways, yeah, you can burn bright for a while and then you totally burn out.
我從那裡意識到，當我們以不健康的方式這麼拼命時，你可以燃燒得很亮一陣子，然後你完全燒盡。
Yes. >> And then what? >> You know, and so for me in my career now, like I know I want to have impact for the rest of my life. I want to have
是的。然後呢？所以對我現在的職業來說，我知道我想一輩子有影響力。我想有
sustainable impact. So, how do I take care of myself daytoday such that that's possible?
可持續的影響力。那我怎麼每天照顧自己讓那成為可能？
>> Yes. >> You know, and I don't wish that upon anybody that they get to that such a a a low place to learn this, right? And so,
是的。我不希望任何人要到這麼低的地方才學會這個，對吧？所以，
if we can care for ourselves even in small ways, um I think that really leads to our ability to do all the things we want to do over the long run.
如果我們能以小的方式照顧自己，我覺得那真的會讓我們能長期做我們想做的所有事。
>> It's really clicking for me. There's this saying for high achievers like what has gotten you here >> will not help you get to where you want
這真的在我腦中連上了。有句話給高成就者說，讓你走到這裡的不會幫你到達你想
to be next. And all of this is the context is making so much sense because for the last um I don't know decade it's like pushing so hard and like holding
去的下一個地方。所有這些背景都太有道理了，因為過去十年就像是這麼用力推，像是
things with your hands gripped white knuckled teeth clenched to get through it to grind and work so hard but coming out the other side you there's a menty B
緊握著，白色指節，咬緊牙關，努力撐過去，這麼拼命工作，但走出來的另一邊有 menty B
or there's a breakdown but getting to the next level of where we want to be for growth means letting go.
或有崩潰，但到達我們想要成長的下一個層次意味著放手。
>> Totally. And there's this beautiful thing I've discovered in surrender, right? Like control is illus an illusion that we think we can control everything and we can't like look what happened during co right
完全。我在臣服中發現了這個美麗的東西，對吧？控制是一種錯覺，我們以為我們可以控制一切，但我們不能，像是看看疫情發生了什麼
um and so to me success looks very different today than it did in the past.
所以對我來說，今天的成功和過去看起來非常不同。
Before success was all about external outcomes. Today success for me is about living my values. You know, you I saw you guys did a post on this recently. I loved it. You
以前成功都是關於外在結果。今天對我來說成功是關於活出我的價值觀。你知道的，你——我看到你們最近發了一個關於這個的帖子。我好喜歡。
know, it's like, am I living with love every day? Am I giving to others? Am I growing? These are all things I can control.
你知道的，像是，我每天是否帶著愛生活？我是否在給予他人？我是否在成長？這些都是我能控制的事。
>> Yeah. >> Right. So, if I give something my all, that's the best I can do. And then I kind of have to let go of the rest. I
是啊。對。所以，如果我全力以赴做某件事，那就是我能做的最好的。然後我有點必須放下其餘的。
have so many thoughts. Please. So on the concept of control, I think I saw a Tik Tok recently where someone said like, you know, we want everything to be in
我有很多想法。請說。關於控制的概念，我最近看到一個 TikTok，有人說，你知道的，我們想要一切都在
our control because we're trying to optimize things, right? We're so used to trying to make things as good as they can possibly be because >> that's just our, you know, operating
我們的控制中，因為我們試圖優化事情，對吧？我們這麼習慣於試圖讓事情盡可能好，因為那就是我們的運作
mode. But what what happens when you do that is you don't leave room for like serenity or serendipity. you don't leave room for um like magical things that can
模式。但當你那樣做時，你不會留下空間給像是寧靜或機緣。你不會留下空間給像是神奇的事情可能
happen that it's like you kind of need a little bit of a situation that's out of your control in some ways like you can't you're trying to make it the best
發生的事，像是你有點需要一些不在你控制中的情況，像是你不能——你試圖讓它成為最好的
situation that's possible but sometimes you can't imagine the best situation possible like it might be something that's outside of your imagination totally >> so like sometimes you need to have
可能的情況，但有時你無法想像最好的可能情況，像是它可能是超出你想像的東西，完全
situations where you can let that happen >> totally and that's exactly what happened with embrace just like closing the loop on that was for 10 years I was trying to
所以有時你需要有讓那發生的情況。完全，那就是 Embrace 發生的事，就像是結束那個十年，我試圖
control everything and we just kept encountering like all these setbacks and then you know we had to shut down the company and the minute >> I let go of control magic started to
控制一切，我們不斷遇到所有這些挫折，然後我們不得不關閉公司，當我放下控制的那一刻，神奇的事開始
happen you know like Tony Robbins came in out of nowhere and saved the company like I would have never expected that in a million years and so now you know my
發生，你知道，像是 Tony Robbins 從哪裡冒出來拯救了公司，像是我永遠不會預料到那個，所以現在，你知道的，我
my belief as I said is is giving something your all and then you you surrender the outcome so like in the writing of my book I was getting really
的信念就像我說的是全力以赴然後你臣服於結果，像是在寫我的書時，我在
overwhelmmed leading up to the launch because I had all these overachievers telling me you have to make this a bestseller and you know that means you
發布前變得非常不知所措，因為我有所有這些過度成就者告訴我你必須讓這本書成為暢銷書，你知道這意味著你
have to sell this many books and do this and that and I just was feeling really overwhelmed >> and so a friend came to visit me in in
必須賣這麼多書，做這個那個，我只是感覺真的很不知所措，所以一個朋友來
Honolulu where I live and we had a little ceremony and I only had one copy of the book at that point and I threw it in the ocean.
我住的檀香山看我，我們有一個小儀式，那時我只有一本書，我把它扔進了海裡。
>> This is funny. >> I love that.
這太好笑了。我好喜歡。
>> And it was so beautiful. Yeah. I was like I gave this my soul. And now I give it to the universe. And you know, I watched as the waves kind of carried it.
那太美了。是啊。我說我把我的靈魂給了這個。現在我把它給宇宙。你知道的，我看著浪花帶著它。
And I thought, that's what I want. I'm going to trust that the wave will take this message >> to where it needs to go.
我想，那就是我想要的。我要相信浪會把這個訊息帶到它需要去的地方。
>> Copy. I was like, I needed that.
收到。我說，我需要那個。
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I fished it out. I didn't litter. Like I, you know, I plucked it out afterwards.
是啊。是啊。而且我把它撈出來了。我沒有亂丟垃圾。像是，你知道的，我之後把它撈出來了。
>> My friend and I actually like burned it and buried it under a tree. We had this whole day. It was very beautiful. But it was just like there's something so beautiful about surrender,
我和我朋友其實把它燒了，埋在一棵樹下。我們有整整一天。非常美麗。但就是，臣服有一些這麼美麗的東西，
right? That again I think helps us with our >> with our mental well-being. And coming back to what you said, I think >> you you hit the nail on the head. So
對吧？我覺得那再一次幫助我們的心理健康。回到你說的，我覺得你說到重點了。
Tony Robbins says this. He says >> success without fulfillment is the ultimate failure, right? And how many people do we know who outwardly are so successful but >> are empty on the inside
Tony Robbins 說這個。他說成功沒有滿足是最終的失敗，對吧？我們認識多少人外表上這麼成功但內心空虛
>> or chasing something chasing the fulfillment but it's not there.
或追逐什麼，追逐滿足但那不在那裡。
>> I think that's the the disconnect or the misalignment.
我覺得那就是斷開或錯位。
>> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. They're always comparing themselves to the next person and as I said the goal coat post keeps moving. So happiness is just like this illusion. It's this thing that you can
是啊。沒錯。他們總是和下一個人比較，就像我說的，目標線不斷移動。所以快樂就像是這個錯覺。這是你永遠
never attain. And back to the idea that you said of like self-compassion, of that being like really important. When you were saying that whole thing, I had this really strong image in my mind
無法得到的東西。回到你說的自我同情的概念，那真的很重要。當你說那整段話時，我腦中有一個非常強烈的畫面，
where I imagined like us as like a glass ball and self-compassion is like the layers of like plastic coating, like bouncy rubber coating that you put on
我想像我們像是一個玻璃球，自我同情像是一層層塑膠塗層，像是彈性橡膠塗層，你塗在
the glass ball so that like if you you know fall, if you fail then you don't your glass ball doesn't break, right?
玻璃球上，這樣如果你掉下來，如果你失敗了，你的玻璃球不會破，對吧？
like you're just like, "Oh, that's okay." Like, I will literally bounce back. Like, I can It doesn't matter.
像是你會說「喔，沒關係。」像是，我會真的彈回來。像是，我可以——沒關係。
Like, the outcome of this one speech doesn't determine who I am because I already am sure of who I am. I know I'm amazing in these ways.
像是，這次演講的結果不決定我是誰，因為我已經確定我是誰了。我知道我在這些方面很棒。
>> Exactly. >> And whether or not like if it goes badly, then that's a fluke or like it went badly for whatever reason. It doesn't matter. I'm not
沒錯。而且像是如果它進行得不好，那是意外或像是因為某些原因進行得不好。沒關係。我
>> my my my, you know, my ego or my my conception of myself that is this glass ball doesn't shatter.
的自我或我對自己的概念，這個玻璃球，不會破碎。
>> I love that. It's untangling your achievement with your identity.
我好喜歡。這是把你的成就和你的身份解開。
>> Yep. >> From your identity. >> Yeah.
是的。從你的身份。是啊。
>> Yes. We are worth more than the sum of our achievements.
是的。我們的價值超過我們成就的總和。
>> Yeah. >> Right. We are worth more than how many likes we get on social media. And I I really worry about this with a younger generation,
是啊。對。我們的價值超過我們在社交媒體上得到多少讚。我真的很擔心年輕一代，
>> right? That they they put a post out there and they don't get that many likes and it like destroys their sense of self.
對吧？他們發一個帖子，沒有得到那麼多讚，這像是摧毀了他們的自我感。
>> Yeah. you know, so I think this this idea of resilience, I love that rubber ball uh image, but that that's even more important in today's world.
是啊。你知道的，所以我覺得這個韌性的概念，我好喜歡那個橡膠球的畫面，但那在今天的世界更重要。
>> Yeah. So, Jane, to wrap up with something more tactical for our audience in your memoir, you write, "We cannot heal what we cannot feel." >> But what about people who've been numb
是啊。所以，Jane，用更實際的東西來結束，為我們的觀眾，在你的回憶錄中，你寫道「我們無法療癒我們無法感受的。」但那些已經麻木
for so long or pushing aside the emotion, sweeping it under the rug, and they don't even know where to start? How do you begin to feel again? Again,
很久或把情緒推開、掃到地毯下面、甚至不知道從哪裡開始的人呢？你怎麼開始重新感受？再一次，
taking that time to pause and sit with in stillness. And at first, you might not feel very much. I certainly didn't.
花時間暫停和坐在靜止中。起初，你可能不會感覺到很多。我當然沒有。
Um, but the more I sat with myself, the more I'd start to feel little sensations. And that's the thing. Every emotion is correlated to a physical sensation. So, can we start tuning into
但我越是和自己坐在一起，我越開始感覺到小小的感覺。那就是關鍵。每一種情緒都和一種身體感覺相關。那我們能開始調頻到
that? And can we allow ourselves like the grace and be patient enough with ourselves that we do that slowly?
那個嗎？我們能給自己足夠的恩典和耐心慢慢做這個嗎？
>> That's the first thing I would suggest.
那是我建議的第一件事。
The second which I said earlier is really about the power of community.
第二個我之前說過的是關於社區的力量。
Right? Healing doesn't happen in isolation. And so the more we can surround ourselves with whether it's friends, therapists, teachers that can create that sense of safety for us, then the
對吧？療癒不會在孤立中發生。我們越能被朋友、心理師、老師圍繞，他們能為我們創造安全感，那
nervous system relaxes enough to start feeling and to access those emotions. So um these are small practices but there are things that have been you know really really huge in my life. Um okay
神經系統就夠放鬆，開始感受和接觸那些情緒。所以這些是小練習但在我生活中非常重要。好
so last question Jane is can you tell us a little bit more about what you're working on today and then also where we can find you online and where people can
最後一個問題，Jane，你能告訴我們更多關於你今天在做什麼，還有人們可以在哪裡找到你在線上和哪裡可以
um find like a wave we break. >> Sure. Yes. So I stepped down from Embrace in May. Um we finally reached our goal of saving a million babies as of this year. That's incredible.
找到 Like a Wave We Break。當然。是的。所以我在五月從 Embrace 退下來了。我們終於在今年達到了拯救一百萬個嬰兒的目標。太棒了。
>> Congratulations. Oh my god. Inconceivable. >> Yeah. So, it feels so good. Uh and it feels so good to say that doesn't define all of who I am,
恭喜。天啊。不可思議。是啊。所以，感覺太好了。而且感覺太好說那不定義我所有的人，
>> right? And I think what I'm most proud of is actually learning how to embrace myself.
對吧？我覺得我最驕傲的是其實學會如何擁抱自己。
>> Yeah. And so what I'm moving into now is leadership coaching and development and really teaching all of the things that I've learned in my journey both with
是啊。所以我現在轉向的是領導力教練和發展，真的教所有我在旅程中學到的東西，不管是
embrace and my healing journey to others to help them step into their fullest selves for them to step into alignment to teach how do you feel your feelings
Embrace 還是我的療癒旅程，給其他人，幫助他們進入他們最完整的自己，讓他們進入一致，教如何感受你的感受
you know um and so these are all tools that I have gained so much from and I feel so passionate about doing this with others and so I'm doing that both like
你知道，所以這些都是我從中獲益良多的工具，我對和其他人做這個充滿熱情，所以我在做這個，不管是
on a corporate level and on an indiv individual level as well. And so for people who are interested in that, um my website is janemariechen.com.
企業層面還是個人層面。對有興趣的人，我的網站是 janemariechen.com。
I've got lots of resources there for people who want to go down a development or healing path. And then um yeah, you can reach out to me there for any
我那裡有很多資源給想走發展或療癒道路的人。然後，是啊，你可以在那裡聯繫我關於任何
inquiries on the leadership coaching as well. >> Amazing. Amazing.
領導力教練的詢問。太棒了。太棒了。
>> I feel like you're a professor or a lecturer. Like if you have like a course on this, I'm like people would do office hours for sure. This was office hours for us.
我覺得你像是教授或講師。像是如果你有關於這個的課程，我覺得人們會來辦公室時間的。這對我們來說是辦公室時間。
>> Honestly, I appreciate that. I mean, you're a guru. You've like studied under the You've literally studied under the best.
老實說，我很感謝。我是說，你是大師。你像是跟著——你真的跟著最好的人學習。
>> I h I feel so lucky and I I feel like writing the book, I got to bring a little piece of all my teachers into the
我覺得好幸運，我覺得寫這本書，我得以把我所有老師的一小部分帶進
writing of the book. Um so for those interested in picking up the book, it's called Like a Wave We Break. It's available at any bookstore and on
書的寫作中。對有興趣的人，這本書叫 Like a Wave We Break。任何書店和
Amazon. I really hope you guys um get something out of it. But it's a message that that truly came from the depths of my soul. Yeah, it's a beautiful book and
Amazon 都有。我真心希望你們能從中得到一些東西。但這是真的來自我靈魂深處的訊息。是啊，這是一本很美的書，
there's a lot of learnings in it too. A lot of takeaways.
裡面也有很多學習。很多收穫。
>> Awesome. Thank you so much. >> Yay.
太棒了。非常感謝。耶。
點擊句子跳轉到對應位置
Turning to your parents, how do you find peace, internal peace, in loving the people who made you but who also deeply hurt you?
談到你的父母，你如何找到平靜、內心的平靜，在愛著創造你但也深深傷害你的人的同時？
>> This is a conversation that I don't think anyone else is having. Jarie Chen has a resume that is untouchable.
這是我認為沒有其他人在進行的對話。Jarie Chen 的履歷是無可挑剔的。
Harvard, Stanford, nonprofit founder that saved over a million babies, honored by President Obama, the list goes on. Often people with these like perfect looking outsides come from histories of trauma. Achievement becomes
哈佛、史丹佛、非營利組織創辦人拯救了超過一百萬嬰兒、被歐巴馬總統表彰，清單還在繼續。通常外表看起來完美的人來自創傷的歷史。成就成為
a coping mechanism because we feel like we're not enough. We feel like we have to do more or be more, improve more. But when you're relying on the external, the
一種應對機制因為我們覺得我們不夠好。我們覺得我們必須做更多或變得更多、改進更多。但當你依賴外在的，
goalpost will just keep moving. Nothing's going to be good enough. I think this is the most important conversation that we're going to have on Tiger Sisters because we've been talking about finding smarter
目標柱就會一直移動。沒有什麼會足夠好。我認為這是我們在 Tiger Sisters 上要進行的最重要的對話，因為我們一直在談論更聰明的
ways to handle money and now we've got a sponsor who's built for that. SoFi has joined Tiger Sisters as our exclusive finance sponsor that we trust for all
處理金錢的方式，現在我們有一個為此而建的贊助商。SoFi 作為我們信任的獨家金融贊助商加入了 Tiger Sisters
our finance needs. They make it easy to bank, borrow, and invest all in one app and we are so excited to have them on board.
處理我們所有的金融需求。他們讓銀行、借貸和投資都在一個應用程式中變得簡單，我們很高興有他們加入。
This is one of the hardest conversations we've ever had on Tiger Sisters because it's something that we carry but we rarely talk about childhood trauma, forgiveness, and the process of healing
這是我們在 Tiger Sisters 上進行過的最困難的對話之一，因為這是我們承載但很少談論的東西——童年創傷、寬恕和從養育我們的人那裡療癒的過程。
from people who raised us. If you've ever wondered how to forgive your parents, this episode might change the way you see them and yourself. Jarie Chen has a resume that is untouchable.
如果你曾經想知道如何寬恕你的父母，這一集可能會改變你看待他們和你自己的方式。Jarie Chen 的履歷是無可挑剔的。
Harvard, Stanford, nonprofit founder that saved over a million babies, honored by President Obama. The list goes on. Her memoir, Like a Wave We Break, shares about what happens when achievement is a coping mechanism.
哈佛、史丹佛、非營利組織創辦人拯救了超過一百萬嬰兒，被歐巴馬總統表彰。清單還在繼續。她的回憶錄《像浪花一樣破碎》分享了當成就成為應對機制時會發生什麼。
>> It's about what it takes to forgive the people who broke you when they're also the people that made you and loved you.
這是關於寬恕那些打破你的人需要什麼，當他們也是創造你和愛你的人。
Trigger warning, we talk about abuse and self harm in this episode, and if you're struggling, please know that you're not alone. We've linked helplines and resources in the description. Jane Marie
觸發警告，我們在這一集中談論虐待和自殘，如果你正在掙紮，請知道你不是一個人。我們在描述中鏈接了幫助熱線和資源。Jane Marie
Chen, welcome to the Tiger Sisters podcast. >> Yay.
Chen，歡迎來到 Tiger Sisters 播客。耶。
>> Thank you for having me. >> So Jane, we're going to dive right in to our questions.
感謝你邀請我。那麼 Jane，我們要直接進入我們的問題。
>> Sure. >> So in your memoir, you describe moments of physical and verbal abuse like being hit by a belt, being slapped so hard that your glasses flew off. Many things
當然。在你的回憶錄中，你描述了身體和言語虐待的時刻，比如被皮帶打、被打到眼鏡飛出去。許多
that immigrant immigrant many things that immigrant children experience but rarely talk about. How did you find the courage to not just talk about it but to write about it in such a public way?
移民孩子經歷但很少談論的事情。你是如何找到勇氣不僅談論它，而且以這樣公開的方式寫它？
>> Well, I think I really wanted to share the journey as a way to help anyone else who has been through similar experiences and that meant sharing the whole journey
嗯，我認為我真的想分享這段旅程作為幫助任何經歷過類似經歷的人的一種方式，這意味著分享整個旅程
and the hardest part of the journey, the hardest parts of the journey. um and what had happened in my upbringing with regards to physical abuse which I didn't even recognize as abuse until probably
和旅程中最困難的部分。嗯，關於我成長過程中發生的身體虐待，我直到可能
my late 30s you know so it was a wakeup call to me >> and as I started sharing my story I met so many others who had had similar experiences
30 歲末才認識到那是虐待，你知道，所以這對我來說是一個覺醒。當我開始分享我的故事時，我遇到了很多有過類似經歷的人
>> um and that's what gave me the courage to do this it was in order to help other people you know and extend a lifeline to others who are struggling with the same
嗯，這就是給我勇氣做這件事的原因。這是為了幫助其他人，你知道，向其他正在掙紮相同
issues. You know this the the book begins 10 years into the journey of my company Embrace which builds lowcost baby incubators for preeis in developing countries. Um it was a technology that
問題的人伸出援手。你知道，這本書開始於我公司 Embrace 旅程的 10 年，它為發展中國家的早產兒製造低成本嬰兒保溫箱。嗯，這是一種
my team and I invented at Stanford back in 2008 and we we turned it into a company and then I moved to India and we made a goal to save a million babies
我和我的團隊在 2008 年在史丹佛發明的技術，我們把它變成了一家公司，然後我搬到印度，我們定了一個目標要用我們的保溫箱拯救一百萬嬰兒。
with our incubators. Um and I basically made that mission my life.
嗯，我基本上把那個使命當作我的生命。
>> So I gave my soul to this work. Um and in that process, you know, I experienced so many setbacks and challenges and really was burned out, you know, at the
所以我把我的靈魂給了這項工作。嗯，在那個過程中，你知道，我經歷了很多挫折和挑戰，真的精疲力盡，你知道，
end of this 10-year period when we faced a setback that was so big we had to shut down the company.
在工作的壓力下。我認為回顧起來，那就是強迫性成就者的樣子。
>> And at that point, I was just absolutely devastated. You know, I felt like a complete failure. And so I decided to go on a healing journey and I packed up a
我不斷地設定更高的目標，達到它們，然後立即設定更高的目標。
surfboard, a suitcase, I bought a one-way ticket to Indonesia and I threw myself into healing, you know, with the same intensity I'd once poured into into building my company. And so as I went
這不是關於慶祝或滿足。這是關於填補這個感覺不夠的空白。
through this this journey, I finally connected the dots. that feeling so powerless through my childhood.
哇。這太有洞察力了。很多我們的聽眾可能與此有關。那麼這種強迫性成就是如何表現的呢？
That's what had given me the drive, right, the fuel to help the most powerless people in the world.
嗯，它以不同的方式表現。對我來說，這是工作。我總是在工作。我無法關閉。
>> But there was a shadow side of that in that it also drove me to work to really unhealthy levels at the expense of my own mental health and well-being.
我會醒著躺在床上想著下一個要解決的問題。我覺得如果我不工作，我就沒有價值。
>> I mean, I just want to say that I respect and like venerate what you have done. so much to like put yourself out there in such a true and open way and
那也是當身體開始表現出症狀的時候。我開始有恐慌發作。我的頭髮開始脫落。我在半夜醒來心跳加速。
like really be vulnerable about your past. Like I just know you are helping so many people out there. And that's also why we were really really excited and looking forward to this conversation
這是我的身體告訴我一些事情嚴重錯誤了。
because I don't think I've ever like read a book that had that level of like honesty and exploring these topics like yours. Mhm. Yeah.
你是什麼時候意識到這與你的童年有關的？
>> And it's important it's important to to talk about it to like put it down on paper and like put it into words otherwise >> Yeah.
花了很長時間。直到我開始治療並開始向後追溯。
>> otherwise it doesn't get addressed. Before recording this episode, I was doing some reflecting and I think this is the most important conversation that we're going to have on Tiger Sisters
我意識到我的驅動力不僅僅是因為我有雄心壯志。是因為在內心深處，我覺得我必須證明我值得被愛。
because of course there's so many podcasts out there that talks about the business world and career and all these things to like uplevel, but like once you're there and reflecting on how you
這直接與我成長中收到的信息有關。表現好、成為最好、不要讓家人丟臉。
got there and often the very painful ways to do that, I'm like this is a conversation that I don't think anyone else is having. And I think it starts
而且當我不這樣做時，會有後果。所以我學會了愛是有條件的。愛是掙來的。
with you sharing so vulnerably in your book.
這是一個如此強大的實現。很多移民孩子與此有關。那麼你是如何開始療癒過程的？
>> Yeah. Thank you guys. And I I actually see this particularly with high achievers, you know, and we think, oh, people Yeah. Right. And we think, oh, people with perfect resumes,
這始於治療。找到一個好的治療師是改變遊戲規則的。
they've got it all together. >> But often people with these like perfect looking outsides come from from histories of trauma, right? And um achievement becomes a coping mechanism.
這不僅僅是談論你的問題。是理解它們的根源。
Achievement becomes a trauma response because we feel like we're not enough, right? And so we feel like we have to do more or be more improve more and we
對我來說，是理解我的父母也是他們環境的產物。他們成長在一個身體紀律是常態的時代。
completely burn out in the process. And I see this particularly with entrepreneurs with social entrepreneurs um but with also just a number of the high achieving achieving people that I'm
他們沒有工具以不同的方式教養。他們在用他們所知道的做最好的。
surrounded by. But we live in a culture in which we try to escape our pain.
這不是為他們的行為找藉口。是為了我自己的理解和療癒而將其語境化。
>> Right? The moment we feel something painful, we turn to social media, we turn to substances, we turn to our work, right? And so a lot of what I've had to
這太美麗了。那麼寬恕呢？寬恕是療癒的一部分嗎？
learn is how to really face those painful experiences and and sit with them and that's the only way through to the other side. Um and I think you know
是的，但我認為寬恕是被誤解的。寬恕不是說發生的事情是可以的。
another aspect of this is what happens in in Asian culture >> and I think there are cycles of abuse that become normalized >> because they're considered a part of the cultural norm. Mhm.
寬恕是為了你自己，不是為了另一個人。是放下讓你被困住的憤怒和怨恨。
>> And so that's why as I went through this journey, I felt it really imperative to to call it out and to be more open about this, right? So others feel more seen,
我不必宣布「我原諒你」給我的父母。是我在內心做的工作來處理痛苦並向前走。
validated, and less alone. And Jane, why why do you think it is that children of immigrants or, you know, first generation people feel that drive to achieve? It's a way for them to
這是一個強大的重新框架。那麼這如何影響了你今天和你父母的關係？
feel safe. if it's a way for them to sort of escape these other things that are going on in their lives like what what do you think is behind it?
它改變了一切。我能夠以同理心來面對他們而不是怨恨。
>> I think there's a lot I think a lot of the cultural expectation is around high achievement, right? Whether that be in school or in our careers.
我現在看到他們是經歷過自己創傷的人。我可以愛他們同時仍然為過去發生的事情感到悲傷。
>> Um I think there's also this pressure that our families gave up everything to come here, >> right? And so we we want to excel. We want to show that that was all
這對我們的關係來說很療癒。比它曾經是的更深。
worthwhile. Uh, and so we take it upon ourselves to, you know, to be the best that we can. I think that's that's all kind of tangled up in here. Um, and then
這太美麗了。對於正在經歷類似事情的人，你有什麼建議？
there's this like phenomenon, and I I see this especially in Asian culture of like nothing's good enough, >> right? And so that's certainly how I felt for most of my life and all my
首先，知道你不是一個人。很多人帶著這些童年傷口。只是我們不經常談論它們。
upbringing. And it didn't matter how many degrees I got or accolades I won or babies I saved, there was always this this void >> that nothing could fill. And so it was
第二，得到幫助。治療、支持團體、可信賴的朋友。你不必獨自面對這個。
that sense of like not enoughness which I didn't know how to articulate back then. Um but I think that was also a result of again the the abuse from my
第三，對自己有耐心。療癒不是線性的。會有好日子也會有壞日子。
childhood, right? That that as a child you can't really make sense of it. And so you you wonder, well, what's wrong with me? And then as an adult, you want
第四，記住療癒是一段旅程，不是目的地。是關於進步，不是完美。
to prove that that you're okay, that you're worthy.
這是如此強大的建議。謝謝你如此脆弱和開放地分享你的故事。
>> And so I think that's what was was driving me. And it was I really believed in the mission of the organization. And as I said, >> my pain really became my purpose,
謝謝你們邀請我。我希望這能幫助正在經歷這些的人。
>> right? It gave me so much drive to do the work that I do. And at the same time, there was this like dark shadow side of that.
它一定會的。在我們離開之前，人們在哪裡可以找到你的書和你的工作？
>> So it was both things simultaneously. Do you think the context of like coming from a background where your family or your parents gave up so much and
你可以在任何書店找到我的書《像浪花一樣破碎》。而且你可以在 Instagram 上關注我。
sacrificed so much for you to get you where you are?
太棒了。感謝你加入我們。這是一次不可思議的對話。
>> Do you think that is a helpful driver or is it a lot slash too much weight >> to hold and carry?
謝謝你們。
>> I think it's both. I think it's both.
好的，這是我們 Tiger Sisters 上進行過的最情感化的對話之一。我希望它引起了你們的共鳴。
And I think um you know there's this pressure that creates healthy drive and then there's the point where it tips into being unhealthy drive, >> right? And so in my case, there was the
如果你正在經歷類似的事情，請知道你不是一個人。我們在描述中有資源。
drive of like wanting to do something good for healthy reasons and then there was this other part of like needing to prove. And so I think once it gets into
如果你喜歡這一集，請訂閱 Tiger Sisters 播客。在 Spotify 和 Apple Podcasts 上給我們五星評價。
that needing to prove category or feeling like you should be doing something, that's when it can feel unhealthy. And that's where I think we need to develop that awareness around
分享就是關愛。感謝收聽。我們下次見。
like what our motivations are and is this healthy for me just like from a me mental health and well-being perspective.
拜拜。
>> Yeah. I think Sheree and I, we actually talked about this topic a little bit on a really really early episode of Tiger Sisters, like >> first season ever or something. I think
是啊。我覺得 Sheree 和我，我們其實在 Tiger Sisters 很早期的一集談過這個話題，像是——第一季還是什麼的。我覺得
maybe the way that we put it is that you kind of feel like the weight of all of your ancestors and like all of the generations that came before you. Yeah.
也許我們說的方式是你感覺到所有祖先的重量，像是所有在你之前的世代。是啊。
>> And it's like it's helpful to know your family history, but sometimes when parts of the family history can feel so heavy, and I think this is true for like a lot
而且，像是知道你的家族歷史是有幫助的，但有時家族歷史的某些部分會感覺很沉重，我覺得這對很多
of people, a lot of communities, not just AAPI, but >> people who have some sort of history of like overcoming or like trauma or like escaping a terrible situation in their
人、很多社區來說都是真的，不只是 AAPI，而是那些有克服或創傷或逃離可怕處境歷史的人，
ancestral chain, like you almost feel like you owe it to them. You're like, I am living out my ancestors dreams like even just in my day-to-day life. And it's like, how can I not
你幾乎覺得你欠他們。你會想，我在日常生活中實現了祖先的夢想。像是，我怎麼能不
like make it up to them? Like, I need to do the most with my life. I need to make the most of my life. I need to save a
補償他們？我需要用我的生命做最多的事。我需要充分利用我的生命。我需要拯救
million babies because I can, right? >> And they never could. So, like, >> right.
一百萬個嬰兒，因為我可以，對吧？而他們永遠不能。所以，像是——對。
>> It's you feel almost this this like level this like imperative inside you.
你感覺到像是內心有這種程度的使命感。
>> Yeah. >> Um >> I think that's right. Yeah. Achievement also ends up becoming safety, >> right? because we grow up in these environments where we're we're we're wanting to belong and we don't
是啊。嗯。我覺得那是對的。成就也變成了安全感，對吧？因為我們在這些環境中長大，我們想要歸屬感，我們不
necessarily like we were the only Asian family, one of the only Asian families in my in my neighborhood.
一定——像是我們是唯一的亞洲家庭，我鄰居裡唯一的幾個亞洲家庭之一。
>> Yeah. >> Right. So, we didn't we didn't belong.
是啊。對。所以，我們不屬於那裡。
My parents didn't speak English. I I moved to the US when I was four years old. I didn't speak a word of English.
我父母不說英語。我四歲時搬到美國。我一句英語都不會說。
And so, you feel like an outcast and um achieving gives you a sense of belonging, right? And so, there's kind of a safety in that that we're also
所以，你覺得自己是局外人，成就給你一種歸屬感，對吧？那裡面有一種安全感，我們也在
seeking. I want to talk a little bit more about your work with Bessel Van Derkulk, the author of The Body Keep Score. You wrote in your memoir that the
追求。我想再多談談你和 Bessel Van Der Kolk 的工作，《心靈的傷，身體會記住》的作者。你在回憶錄中寫道，
imprint of your father's violence was lodged in your body, stuck in a survival loop. Can you explain what that means and how does trauma actually live in the body?
你父親暴力的印記留在你的身體裡，卡在生存迴圈中。你能解釋這是什麼意思嗎？創傷實際上是如何存在於身體裡的？
>> Sure. Yeah. I think this was one of the big turning points of my healing journey was reading The Body Keeps the Score by Messel Vanderolk. And up until that
當然。是啊。這是我療癒旅程的一個重大轉折點，就是讀《心靈的傷，身體會記住》。在那之前
point, I I think I had the belief that what happens in your past, just leave it in the past, right? Why why deal with it? And I remember um in business school
我相信過去發生的事，就讓它留在過去，對吧？為什麼要處理它？我記得在商學院
actually, I saw a therapist and he wanted to dive into my childhood. And I was like, I don't want to talk about that. I'm not I don't want to play the
其實我去看了心理師，他想深入我的童年。我說我不想談那個。我不想扮演
role of the victim or villainize my parents.
受害者的角色或把我父母妖魔化。
>> I have a life now. Let's move on.
我現在有生活了。讓我們繼續前進。
>> Um and what I >> That's such a classic like coping mechanism, >> right? Exactly.
嗯，我——那是這麼經典的應對機制，對吧？沒錯。
>> It like helps you survive. >> It helps you survive. you'd rather just kind of sweep it under the rug.
它像是幫助你生存。它幫助你生存。你寧願把它掃到地毯下面。
>> Yeah. >> And so reading this book was like completely eye opening for me >> because what I learned is trauma isn't just something that lives in your past.
是啊。所以讀這本書對我來說完全是大開眼界，因為我學到的是創傷不只是活在你的過去。
>> It's actually something that rewires your brain and your nervous system >> such that you bring the past into the present and it affects every part of your life. Right? Trauma gets stored in
它實際上重新連接了你的大腦和神經系統，使你把過去帶到現在，影響你生活的每一部分。創傷就是這樣儲存在
your body in that way. Trauma is also stored in the lyic system. So this is the part of our brain that is responsible for emotions, for connections,
你的身體裡。創傷也儲存在邊緣系統。這是我們大腦負責情緒、連結的部分，
>> not thinking. The thinking part of our brain is the neoortex.
不是思考。我們大腦的思考部分是新皮質。
>> And so this this is a big realization I had for me. Talk therapy never worked because you can't talk your way out of trauma.
這是我的一個重大認識。談話治療從來沒用，因為你不能用說的方式擺脫創傷。
>> You have to feel your way through it.
你必須用感受的方式穿過它。
>> And that was something again that was that was so eye openening for me. Even on this healing journey, I basically like put on my CEO hat and I wanted to
那對我來說又是這麼大開眼界。即使在這個療癒旅程中，我基本上戴上我的 CEO 帽子，我想
try every healing modality. We had a spreadsheet of all >> things.
嘗試每一種療癒方式。我們有一個所有東西的試算表。
>> If something didn't work, I would pivot to the next thing. And I wanted to find, you know, that magic elixir that was going to fix me.
如果某個東西沒用，我會轉向下一個。我想找到那個能修復我的神奇靈藥。
>> And what I learned is that instead of doing more, I needed to slow down.
我學到的是，與其做更多，我需要放慢腳步。
>> And I needed to feel I needed to feel my heartbreak. I needed to feel my fear, my anger.
我需要感受，我需要感受我的心碎。我需要感受我的恐懼、我的憤怒。
>> Yeah. >> All of it. Everything I'd been running away from, right? And so it wasn't until I I did that and and and did that through the help of teachers, healers,
是啊。所有的。我一直逃避的一切，對吧？所以直到我在老師、療癒師、朋友的幫助下做到了，
friends who created a safe space for me to go there.
他們為我創造了一個安全的空間讓我去那裡。
>> That's when my healing journey truly began.
那時我的療癒旅程才真正開始。
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I really empathized when I was reading this part of your memoir because I am such a doer and fixer. I have like such a fixer mentality. I'm like, "Okay,
是啊。我讀這部分回憶錄時真的很有同感，因為我就是這麼一個行動派和修復者。我有這麼強的修復者心態。我會想「好，
whether at work or in a relationship or anything, I'm like, okay, here's a challenge. How do I fix it?" And like, "What are the top five things that I can
不管是在工作還是感情或任何事情，我會想，好，這是挑戰。我怎麼修復它？」還有「我能做的前五件事是
do?" Like, you know, and AB test them and go through all of them, see if they work and pivot if they don't. So, like when I was reading this part of your
什麼？」像是，AB 測試它們，一個個試，看看有沒有用，沒用就換方向。所以，當我讀你
memoir, I was like, "This is so me." And it turns out the solution is not or one of the solutions is not to be you know bringing my product manager CEO momentum
回憶錄的這部分時，我想「這就是我。」結果解決方案不是把我的產品經理 CEO 動力
into it but actually slowing down is so hard and quite possibly the solution to turning inwards.
帶進去，而是放慢腳步很難，而且很可能是向內轉的解決方案。
>> Yeah. Yeah. And it's hard especially because we disconnect from our emotions as a survival mechanism. Yeah.
是啊。是啊。這很難，特別是因為我們作為生存機制斷開了我們的情緒。是啊。
>> Right. When we're younger because we it's too painful to feel those things.
對。當我們年輕時，因為感受那些東西太痛苦了。
Well, and also because when you're younger, you don't have the you don't have the tools to process it.
好，而且因為你年輕時，你沒有工具來處理它。
Like you don't know what to do with those feelings. So like kind of I think the safest thing is to like put them away.
像是你不知道怎麼處理那些感受。所以我覺得最安全的事就是把它們收起來。
>> You don't know how to productively >> process them. Yeah. I think >> Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So, as an adult, it's like learning all of that again,
你不知道怎麼有效地處理它們。是啊。所以，作為成年人，就是重新學習所有這些，
you know, and and there's such beauty in that because that's what makes us human and alive, >> you know, is is being able to reach into the depths of those emotions.
你知道的，那裡面有這麼多美，因為那就是讓我們成為人和活著的東西，能夠觸及情緒的深處。
>> And there's so much wisdom to our emotions.
而且我們的情緒有這麼多智慧。
>> Is this what is this what people call inner child work?
這是不是人們說的內在小孩工作？
>> Well, yes, we can get to that, too.
嗯，是的，我們也可以談那個。
Yeah, that's part of it. I think the other really helpful part of my healing journey was discovering something called parts work or internal family systems.
是啊，那是其中一部分。我覺得我療癒旅程中另一個非常有幫助的部分是發現一種叫做部分工作或內在家庭系統的東西。
And this is a therapeutic modality that's based on the premise that we all consist of a multitude of parts, right?
這是一種治療方式，基於我們都由很多部分組成的前提，對吧？
So you guys might have the overachiever part, the control freak, the perfectionist, the inner critic. You know, I'm making this all up, but we all have these.
所以你們可能有過度成就者的部分、控制狂、完美主義者、內在批評者。你知道的，我在瞎編，但我們都有這些。
Sounds plausible. >> Yeah, it doesn't sound that made up.
聽起來合理。是啊，聽起來不是瞎編的。
>> So, we have these parts that are there to protect us >> and they're there to protect us from the parts that carry more painful emotions like shame, rejection, abandonment,
所以，我們有這些部分來保護我們，它們保護我們免受那些承載更痛苦情緒的部分，像是羞恥、拒絕、遺棄，
right? And so, the goal of this practice is to recognize these different parts of ourselves. I had this like warrior part that one of my exes nicknamed Jangus Khan.
對吧？所以，這個練習的目標是認識我們自己的這些不同部分。我有一個戰士部分，我的一個前任給它取名叫成吉思汗。
>> >> But the goal is to to um recognize and have compassion for each of these parts rather than to shame or to banish them to understand that they've all played a
但目標是認識並對每一個部分有同情心，而不是羞辱或驅逐它們，理解它們都在我們
role in in our life, right? And so how do we develop selfacceptance and self-compassion based on this? And what I learned through this process was that part of me that was all about
生活中扮演了角色，對吧？那我們怎麼基於這個發展自我接納和自我同情？我通過這個過程學到的是，我那個想
trying to, you know, do more and achieve more and and save the world, >> that was protecting the part of me that that never felt like I was enough. You
做更多、成就更多和拯救世界的部分，那是在保護我從來不覺得自己夠好的那部分。
know, that very young part of me. >> And so really pivotal part of my healing journey was having a relationship, developing a relationship with that part
你知道的，那個非常年輕的我的部分。所以我療癒旅程中真正關鍵的部分是和那部分
of myself. And for most of my life, I wanted the rest of the world to show this part of myself that I was worthy.
自己建立關係。大部分的人生，我想讓世界其他人向這部分的我展示我是有價值的。
>> That's what all the external achievements were about. But when you're relying on the external, the goalpost will just keep moving. Nothing's going to be good enough, right? Everything
那就是所有外在成就的意義。但當你依賴外在，目標線會不斷移動。什麼都不夠好，對吧？所有
you're seeking externally, you have to find internally.
你在外在尋找的，你必須在內在找到。
>> Yeah. I think we have a lot of people in our community that I think are probably also really high achieving and can be really hard on themselves. So like what
是啊。我覺得我們社群中有很多人可能也是高成就者，可能對自己很苛刻。那
is something that they could do today to like stop being so hard on themselves and show themselves that level of like compassion that you say is important for for healing and growing?
他們今天可以做什麼來停止對自己這麼苛刻，展示你說的對療癒和成長很重要的那種自我同情？
>> Yeah. Well, this is where coming back to your question about the inner child work. Um, I have a a picture of myself on my desk as a five-year-old
是啊。好，這就回到你關於內在小孩工作的問題。嗯，我書桌上有一張五歲的我的照片，
>> and I will literally just have conversations with this five-year-old me, >> you know, and and at one point in my healing journey and this is through Bessel's retreat. So, to come back to
我真的會和這個五歲的我對話，你知道的，在我療癒旅程的某個時刻，這是通過 Bessel 的靜修。所以，回到
Bessel with my little overachiever hat on, I after I read the book, I became so obsessed with him that I stalked him until he agreed to become my therapist.
Bessel，戴著我的過度成就者小帽子，讀完那本書後，我太迷戀他了，我一直纏著他直到他同意成為我的心理師。
Yeah. >> And so did some like really important work with him over the last couple years. But at one of his retreats, he did something called um a psycho drama.
是啊。所以過去幾年和他做了一些非常重要的工作。但在他的一次靜修中，他做了一個叫心理劇的東西。
So this is a group uh healing like modality where you pick people in the group to play the role of your parents and they enact what happened and then
這是一種團體療癒方式，你選擇群體中的人扮演你父母的角色，他們演出發生的事，然後
you go back and you play you you find new people to play the role of your ideal parents.
你回去找新的人扮演你理想父母的角色。
>> And the idea is to give yourself um the experience of a more loving or nurturing alternative to what happened. And so I watched this happen at Bessel's retreat
這個想法是給自己一個比發生的事更有愛或更滋養的替代體驗。所以我在 Bessel 的靜修中看到這個
and I was like I became obsessed. I was like this is the thing that's going to fix me. If I just heard the right words from the ideal father
我變得很著迷。我想這就是能修復我的東西。如果我只是從理想父親那裡聽到正確的話
>> I you know I would be whole and free. So I went around looking for the perfect ideal father. You know and at one point I recruited a man who looked like Santa
我就會完整和自由。所以我到處找完美的理想父親。你知道，有一次我招募了一個長得像聖誕老人的人
Claus to play the role of my ideal father. Turns out the big jolly white man was not my ideal father.
扮演我理想父親的角色。結果那個大白胖子不是我理想的父親。
Um, but in the in the last chapter of the book, I talk about like I I I recruited a friend to play this role. I wrote out every line that I wanted him
嗯，但在書的最後一章，我談到——我招募了一個朋友扮演這個角色。我寫下了我想讓他
to say to me. >> And and so he did this. He said all these lines >> and I felt nothing. You know, I felt nothing. And so I took this picture of
對我說的每一句話。所以他這樣做了。他說了所有這些臺詞，我什麼都沒感覺到。所以我拿了這張
myself as a 5-year-old and I took that piece of paper and I read every line to that little girl. I just said, "You're enough.
五歲的我的照片和那張紙，我把每一句話讀給那個小女孩聽。我說「你夠好了。
you're worthy. You know, I'm so sorry that happened to you.
你是有價值的。你知道的，發生在你身上的事我很抱歉。
>> Um, and I said all the things to this little girl that I wished someone else had said to me.
嗯，我對這個小女孩說了所有我希望別人對我說的話。
>> And it was only when I said those things to myself that I finally felt something, >> you know, and I realize that again, all the things we're looking for from other
只有當我對自己說這些話時，我才終於感覺到什麼，我意識到再一次，所有我們從其他
people have to come from within. So, how do we develop that relationship with ourselves, right? And that for me that has literally been having these conversations with me as as a child. And
人那裡尋找的東西必須來自內在。那我們怎麼發展和自己的關係，對吧？對我來說那真的就是和小時候的我對話。
I've become like parts work is is something that's been so helpful to me.
我變得——像部分工作是對我非常有幫助的東西。
It's something I recommend to everybody. So for people who are interested, there's a wonderful book called No Bad Parts that I recommend. Um on my website there's a bunch of free resources
這是我推薦給每個人的東西。對有興趣的人，有一本很棒的書叫《No Bad Parts》我推薦。我的網站上有很多免費資源，
including u an exercise around parts work that people can download and try on themselves. Um, but those that practice has been the most groundbreaking for me in terms of self-compassion.
包括一個關於部分工作的練習，人們可以下載自己嘗試。但那個練習對我在自我同情方面是最具突破性的。
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或更多的直接存款，可以獲得 50 美元或 300 美元的獎金。
Terms apply. Start putting your money to work. Head to sofi.com/tigersisters or click the link below to learn more and get started. That's sofi.com/tigeristers.
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in turning to your family and your parents, how do you find peace, internal peace um in loving the people who who made you but who also deeply hurt you?
轉向你的家庭和父母，你如何找到平靜，內心的平靜，在愛那些創造了你但也深深傷害了你的人時？
>> Yeah, I think for me that was really um having compassion for my family history was a really big part of this writing process. And in the book, I explore
是啊，對我來說，對我的家族歷史有同情心真的是這個寫作過程的很大一部分。在書中，我探索
the way that my parents grew up, what happened to them. And so I started to understand the way that seeps into family systems and into lineages, >> right? And having a great deal of
我父母的成長方式，發生在他們身上的事。所以我開始理解那如何滲透進家庭系統和世系，對吧？
compassion for both my ancestry, my history, you know, the history of the country, the history of my parents, all of those things. Um, and so what it's
對我的祖先、我的歷史、國家的歷史、我父母的歷史，所有這些都有很大的同情心。那讓我能夠
allowed me to do is is to have an understanding and to have compassion.
做的是理解並有同情心。
Um, and that doesn't make certain behaviors right. You know, I don't condone abuse of any kind, but but I have an open heart towards my family, you know, and I have peace with my
嗯，那不會讓某些行為變得正確。我不支持任何形式的虐待，但我對我的家人敞開心扉，我和我的
parents, and I know they did the best they could within the within the means that they had, within the context that they that they grew up in. And so that
父母和平共處，我知道他們在他們擁有的資源內、在他們成長的背景下盡了最大努力。
was really really important to me to understand their whole stories. And my practice then is how do I both have boundaries for myself and be openhearted to do both things simultaneously.
那對我來說真的非常重要，要理解他們完整的故事。然後我的練習是我如何既為自己設定界限又敞開心扉，同時做到這兩件事。
>> It's really challenging to be able to hold both at the same time.
同時持有這兩者真的很有挑戰性。
>> Yeah, it's really challenging to be able to hold both. And part of that for me has been tuning into my body in terms of like what feels right and what doesn't
是啊，同時持有這兩者真的很有挑戰性。對我來說，部分是關於調頻到我的身體，感受什麼是對的什麼不對。
feel right. Mhm. >> And so when I'm around certain behaviors that that feel toxic, I feel that now. We talked earlier about kind of disconnecting from emotions now
嗯。當我週圍有某些感覺有毒的行為時，我現在能感覺到。我們之前談過斷開情緒的連結，現在
my body I tune into that and I start contracting and I realize, okay, I don't want to be around these behaviors and then I have the choice to not be right.
我的身體會調頻到那個，我開始收縮，我意識到，好，我不想在這些行為週圍，然後我有選擇不在那裡。
And so it's kind of tuning in to what's right for me as I decide what are my boundaries. Um, and at the same time like practicing that openheartedness,
所以這有點像是調頻到什麼對我是對的，當我決定我的界限是什麼。同時練習敞開心扉，
which I think is so important because ultimately that's what gives you inner peace, right? When you're angry and resentful, and by the way, I think those are really important emotions to feel
我覺得這很重要，因為最終那給你內心平靜，對吧？當你憤怒和怨恨時，順便說一下，我覺得那些是真的很重要的情緒去感受
and process. But when you kind of carry on carry hold that resentment, um, you hurt yourself in the process. And I think my greatest freedom has been feeling all of those things and then
和處理。但當你持續持有那種怨恨，你在過程中傷害了自己。我覺得我最大的自由是感受所有這些然後
being able to let them go. H >> one of the big turning points that you talk about in your book is when you and your younger sister actually sort of
能夠放下它們。你在書中談到的一個重大轉折點是當你和你妹妹其實第一次
confronted your your family about this for the first time and like you kind of said this was my experience. This is why it wasn't okay.
面對你的家人，你有點說這是我的經歷。這就是為什麼這是不對的。
>> Um like actually having that conversation. Do you think that now that the context has changed for your family or for people's family members like what is the level of sort of expectation that
像是真的有那個對話。你覺得現在你的家庭的背景已經改變了，你對他們
you have of them to like develop themselves and grow versus just kind of holding the onus on yourself and being like you know what I can control myself
發展自己和成長的期望是什麼，相對於只是把責任放在自己身上，像是我能控制自己
I can have my boundaries h yeah how do you think about those two things >> yes that's a really great question um I remember uh one of my mentors my my
我可以有我的界限。是啊，你怎麼想這兩件事？是的，那是個很好的問題。我記得，我的一個導師，我的
leader leadership coach, um, Diana Chapman. She's the founder of the the conscious leadership group. She was the one who said to me, "You have to talk to your parents." >> Mhm.
領導力教練，Diana Chapman。她是有意識領導力團體的創辦人。她是那個對我說「你必須和你父母談」的人。
>> And I was like, "No, that would never happen." You know how Asian parents are like >> talking with them?
我說「不，那不會發生的。」你知道亞洲父母怎樣——和他們談？
>> Yeah. Right. About like deep emotion. Yeah. Like that's crazy. I was like, "That's never going to happen." And so >> ability where >> Yeah. So she kept like encouraging me to
是啊。對。關於深層情緒。是啊。那太瘋狂了。我說「那永遠不會發生的。」所以她一直鼓勵我
do this. And then I remember what really kind of pushed me over the edge in terms of having the courage, which was um about maybe this was like six years ago,
做這個。然後我記得真正把我推過邊緣的，在鼓起勇氣方面，是大約六年前，
five or six years ago, a friend that I had grown up with, he was a year above me in high school, also Taiwanese American, um and I knew there was violence in
五六年前，一個和我一起長大的朋友，他比我高一屆，也是臺灣裔美國人，我知道他們家有暴力。
their home. He took his life >> and it really woke me up to something.
他自殺了，這真的讓我驚醒了一些事。
And I started to realize that my silence was complicity.
我開始意識到我的沉默是共謀。
And if I didn't raise this issue with my parents and with the community at large, then I was complicit in what was happening, right? And again, in these cycles of abuse.
如果我不向我父母和更大的社區提出這個問題，那我就是在共謀正在發生的事，對吧？在這些虐待的循環中。
And so I decided to talk to my parents and it was super scary, right? It was like the scariest thing that I've ever done. Um, and as I did it, the the way I
所以我決定和我父母談，這超級可怕，對吧？這是我做過最可怕的事。當我這樣做時，我
prepared for it was to really remind myself, and again, this this uh Diana, my leadership coach, said, "This is not about changing your parents. It's about taking the hand of that little girl and
準備的方式是真的提醒自己，Diana，我的領導力教練說，「這不是要改變你的父母。是要牽著那個小女孩的手
standing up for her, >> right?" And so, it was more Yeah. Which is >> Damn.
為她站出來，對吧？」所以，更多的是——是啊。這是——哇。
>> Also, >> that's a lot. >> Yeah.
而且——那是很多。是啊。
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, and so that was that's that was the point of that exercise.
是啊。是啊。是啊。所以，那就是那個練習的目的。
Like I didn't go into it thinking my parents are going to change. I I know who they are who they are. Yeah.
像是我沒有帶著我父母會改變的想法進去。我知道他們是誰。是啊。
>> Um a and they've also tried to like >> hear me and and and listen, you know, but >> I didn't walk into that wi with the expectation that suddenly, you know,
他們也試著聽我說，傾聽，但我沒有帶著突然一切會一夜之間改變的期望走進去。
everything was going to change overnight. But I did feel that it was really important for me to establish that relationship with myself such that I could trust myself.
但我確實覺得對我來說很重要的是建立和自己的那種關係，這樣我可以信任自己。
>> Okay. >> Right. And so that was the most important thing that came out of that.
好。對。那就是從那裡出來最重要的事。
So your goal for that was more to be listened to and to have that actual dialogue as opposed to necessarily being like having any expectations of the other person um coming out of the
所以你那個的目標更多是被傾聽和有那個實際的對話，而不是一定對對方有任何期望。
conversation. >> Yeah. And I think everyone's on their own journey, right? We can only control our part of this. Yeah.
是啊。而且我覺得每個人都在自己的旅程上，對吧？我們只能控制我們的部分。是啊。
>> When when we expect someone else to behave a certain way and they don't, >> that creates great disappointment and and suffering. And so what I believe is
當我們期望別人以某種方式表現而他們沒有，那會造成很大的失望和痛苦。所以我相信的是
like the best I can do is put my truth out there.
我能做的最好的是把我的真相說出來。
>> And the more I put my truth out there, the more others can stand in their own truth.
我越是把我的真相說出來，其他人就越能站在他們自己的真相中。
>> Yeah. >> Right. And that's that's the best I can do. I think that's something that can be applied not only to relationships with your your your family and your parents,
是啊。對。那就是我能做的最好的。我覺得那不只可以應用到和家人、父母的關係，
but also relationships with friends, relationships with, you know, your your partner. Yeah.
也可以應用到和朋友的關係、和伴侶的關係。是啊。
>> Like that's something, >> yeah, I think gets sort of debated a lot, like expecting someone to change versus >> putting that I guess onus more on yourself or or just not putting that
像是那經常被辯論，像是期望某人改變相對於把那個責任更多放在自己身上，或者不把那個
onus on them >> or speaking your truth. My interpretation actually of what Jane said was less being like listened to or heard and more just speaking and just
責任放在他們身上或者說出你的真相。我對 Jane 說的話的解讀其實不是被傾聽或被聽到，而更多只是說
for yourself and for your inner child like standing up for yourself and if the other party wants to listen to you whether it's a parent or a partner or
為你自己和你的內在小孩，像是為自己站出來，如果對方想聽你，不管是父母還是伴侶還是
whatever like that's kind of on them like they can or cannot but like at least you've said your piece and you've stood up for your inner child. Like I
什麼，像是那是他們的事，他們可以或不可以，但至少你說了你的話，你為你的內在小孩站出來了。
think that is probably so helpful for um >> self-reflection >> like that in itself is the therapeutic modality.
我覺得那對自我反思可能非常有幫助——像是那本身就是治療方式。
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Is the saying it out loud to the person >> whether or not they're actually even listening or absorbing it is kind of your takeaway.
是啊。是對那個人大聲說出來——不管他們是否真的在聽或吸收，那是你的收穫。
>> Yeah. Because they might not have the capacity to absorb or listen and that's not really on you.
是啊。因為他們可能沒有能力吸收或傾聽，那真的不是你的問題。
>> That's right. Yeah. >> I think that's absolutely right. But there's something about speaking our truth out loud, right? especially when it's painful. There's just some there's
沒錯。是啊。我覺得那絕對正確。但大聲說出我們的真相有一些力量，特別是當它很痛苦時。
some power to that. And I think it allows us coming back to this idea of self uh acceptance and self-compassion, you know, again, when we when we are
力量。我覺得它讓我們回到這個自我接納和自我同情的概念，再一次，當我們
able to do that, it allows us to accept all these parts of ourselves.
能夠做到這個，它讓我們接受我們自己的所有這些部分。
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I often think about the balance of obligation and boundaries. I'm still figuring that out >> because I know holidays are coming up
是啊。我經常思考責任和界限之間的平衡。我還在摸索——因為我知道假期要來了
and people are going to be around their families whether or not you want to.
不管你想不想，人們都會和家人在一起。
Like you might go home and it's often really hard for people to establish boundaries with their families if that's not something they grew up knowing how to do.
像是你可能會回家，如果那不是你從小就知道怎麼做的事，人們通常很難和家人建立界限。
>> Yeah. No, I think that's absolutely right. And and it's very hard to establish boundaries with family because we want to love our families, you know,
是啊。不，我覺得那絕對正確。而且和家人建立界限非常難，因為我們想愛我們的家人，
and and the more we can say no to certain things, the stronger our yeses also become.
我們越是能對某些事情說不，我們的肯定也就越有力。
>> And so I think that that that's been really healthy for me from a family perspective is like when I have healthy boundaries for myself, then I can engage with my family more wholeheartedly
我覺得從家庭角度來說，這對我來說真的很健康，像是當我對自己有健康的界限時，我可以更全心全意地和家人互動
>> because I don't have kind of that underlying angst or resentment.
因為我沒有那種潛在的焦慮或怨恨。
>> Yeah. >> Right. So again, this has been like a a new practice for me to tune into. What does that feel like? One of the most useful practices, and again, this is
是啊。對。所以再一次，這對我來說是一個新的練習，去調頻到那感覺像什麼？最有用的練習之一，再一次，這是
this is something I've learned through like leadership coaching and so and now that I've like transition into leadership coaching, something I love to teach, and it's this concept of what is
我通過領導力教練學到的，現在我轉向領導力教練，這是我喜歡教的東西，這是什麼
a whole body? Yes. Oh, >> right. So, think about something in your life that you really wanted to do. Maybe it's a trip you wanted to go on, a
是全身肯定？喔，對。所以，想想你生活中真的想做的事。也許是你想去的旅行，
friend you wanted to see, a meal you wanted to eat. What does that feel like in your body, right? When when your head, your heart, and your gut are all aligned.
你想見的朋友，你想吃的一頓飯。那在你身體裡感覺怎樣？當你的頭腦、心和直覺都一致時。
>> And for me, that often feels like a straight line of energy just up and down my body and everything's like almost like, you know, feels effervescent and I feel energy lifting upwards, right?
對我來說，那通常感覺像是一條直線的能量上下穿過我的身體，一切像是——幾乎像是，感覺像氣泡，我感覺能量向上提升。
That's a whole body. Yes. >> So, anything that doesn't feel like that, you have to question, do I really want to do this?
那是全身肯定。所以，任何不是那種感覺的，你必須問，我真的想做這個嗎？
>> That's a high standard. >> That's a very high standard.
那是個很高的標準。那是個非常高的標準。
>> That's a very high standard. >> Yeah. And it doesn't always mean no you don't. But it's just pause and question yourself.
那是個非常高的標準。是啊。而且這不總是意味著不。但只是暫停並問自己。
>> Yeah. Like why? To what end? >> To what end? Right. And what is this telling me? So I'll give you an example.
是啊。像是為什麼？目的是什麼？對。這告訴我什麼？所以我給你一個例子。
Um I've been on book tour the last six weeks. And when my book came out, I went to New York for an event like two or three days later. Uh and I had an
我過去六週在做新書巡迴。當我的書出版時，我在兩三天後去紐約參加一個活動。我有
opportunity actually to do three events on that day.
機會在那天做三個活動。
>> Old me, no problem. I would have done all three events and just been wiped.
以前的我，沒問題。我會做所有三個活動然後筋疲力盡。
Yeah. >> Right. But tuning into my body, I was like, I felt that contraction. It wasn't a full body yes, right? And so I had to
是啊。對。但調頻到我的身體，我感覺到那種收縮。那不是全身肯定，對吧？所以我必須
really ask myself, do I want to do this or not? Right? Is this going to be healthy for me? Am I going to burn out the very beginning of my book tour? And
真的問自己，我想做這個嗎？這對我健康嗎？我會在新書巡迴一開始就燒盡嗎？
I ultimately decided, and I was very proud of myself for this. Um, but I ultimately decided to do one event and that was it. And I'm so glad I did that,
我最終決定，我為自己很驕傲。但我最終決定做一個活動就好。我很高興我這樣做了，
right? And this is so contrary to like the overachiever part of me, but having that awareness of okay, that doesn't feel quite right or aligned.
對吧？這和我那個過度成就者的部分太相反了，但有那個意識，好，那感覺不太對或一致。
>> So then pausing and asking yourself, do you really want to do this?
然後暫停並問自己，你真的想做這個嗎？
>> And then you might decide yes or no, but at least having that moment of pausing, >> yes, >> right, you have more intention and and consideration. And I think that again is
然後你可能決定是或不是，但至少有那個暫停的時刻，是的，對，你有更多意圖和考慮。我覺得那再一次是
what leads to a health healthier mental state. I think it's kind of funny that like for people who identify as overachievers like the achievement is to not overachieve. Yeah.
導致更健康心理狀態的原因。我覺得很好笑，對那些認同自己是過度成就者的人來說，成就是不過度成就。
>> Like the is that like instead of doing three you did one like that was your version of like outperforming >> you know but it's totally true.
像是不是做三個而是做一個，像是那是你表現更好的版本，但這完全是對的。
>> It makes so much sense. >> Yeah. If your like default state is to be like yeah I can do it. I can do more.
太有道理了。是啊。如果你的默認狀態是像是好我可以做到。我可以做更多。
Like I can always >> achieve more. I can always do more. I can I have to be the best and perform the best and like stretch myself as much as possible. That's not healthy.
像是我總是可以成就更多。我總是可以做更多。我必須是最好的、表現最好、盡可能拉伸自己。那不健康。
>> No, it's not healthy. And guys, like I have to say at the end of that, you know, 10-year period when we had to shut down Embrace, I was in the
不，那不健康。大家，我必須說在那十年期末，我們不得不關閉 Embrace 時，我處於人生最糟糕的
worst place of my life. >> Like I had a complete mental and physical breakdown. Menty B.
狀態。像是我完全心理和身體崩潰了。Menty B。
>> Yes, we Yes, totally. Menty B. It was like I didn't even know that my mind could be that fragile. Like up until that point, I thought I'm invincible. I
是的。Menty B。就像是我甚至不知道我的心智可以這麼脆弱。在那之前，我覺得我是無敵的。
could take on anything, you know? And then that happened and I was like, "Oh, wow. It it took me probably a good year and a half to recover from that." And I
可以承受任何事，你知道嗎？然後那發生了，我說「哇。我大概花了一年半才從那裡恢復。」
realized through that that like when we drive that hard, you know, in unhealthy ways, yeah, you can burn bright for a while and then you totally burn out.
我從那裡意識到，當我們以不健康的方式這麼拼命時，你可以燃燒得很亮一陣子，然後你完全燒盡。
Yes. >> And then what? >> You know, and so for me in my career now, like I know I want to have impact for the rest of my life. I want to have
是的。然後呢？所以對我現在的職業來說，我知道我想一輩子有影響力。我想有
sustainable impact. So, how do I take care of myself daytoday such that that's possible?
可持續的影響力。那我怎麼每天照顧自己讓那成為可能？
>> Yes. >> You know, and I don't wish that upon anybody that they get to that such a a a low place to learn this, right? And so,
是的。我不希望任何人要到這麼低的地方才學會這個，對吧？所以，
if we can care for ourselves even in small ways, um I think that really leads to our ability to do all the things we want to do over the long run.
如果我們能以小的方式照顧自己，我覺得那真的會讓我們能長期做我們想做的所有事。
>> It's really clicking for me. There's this saying for high achievers like what has gotten you here >> will not help you get to where you want
這真的在我腦中連上了。有句話給高成就者說，讓你走到這裡的不會幫你到達你想
to be next. And all of this is the context is making so much sense because for the last um I don't know decade it's like pushing so hard and like holding
去的下一個地方。所有這些背景都太有道理了，因為過去十年就像是這麼用力推，像是
things with your hands gripped white knuckled teeth clenched to get through it to grind and work so hard but coming out the other side you there's a menty B
緊握著，白色指節，咬緊牙關，努力撐過去，這麼拼命工作，但走出來的另一邊有 menty B
or there's a breakdown but getting to the next level of where we want to be for growth means letting go.
或有崩潰，但到達我們想要成長的下一個層次意味著放手。
>> Totally. And there's this beautiful thing I've discovered in surrender, right? Like control is illus an illusion that we think we can control everything and we can't like look what happened during co right
完全。我在臣服中發現了這個美麗的東西，對吧？控制是一種錯覺，我們以為我們可以控制一切，但我們不能，像是看看疫情發生了什麼
um and so to me success looks very different today than it did in the past.
所以對我來說，今天的成功和過去看起來非常不同。
Before success was all about external outcomes. Today success for me is about living my values. You know, you I saw you guys did a post on this recently. I loved it. You
以前成功都是關於外在結果。今天對我來說成功是關於活出我的價值觀。你知道的，你——我看到你們最近發了一個關於這個的帖子。我好喜歡。
know, it's like, am I living with love every day? Am I giving to others? Am I growing? These are all things I can control.
你知道的，像是，我每天是否帶著愛生活？我是否在給予他人？我是否在成長？這些都是我能控制的事。
>> Yeah. >> Right. So, if I give something my all, that's the best I can do. And then I kind of have to let go of the rest. I
是啊。對。所以，如果我全力以赴做某件事，那就是我能做的最好的。然後我有點必須放下其餘的。
have so many thoughts. Please. So on the concept of control, I think I saw a Tik Tok recently where someone said like, you know, we want everything to be in
我有很多想法。請說。關於控制的概念，我最近看到一個 TikTok，有人說，你知道的，我們想要一切都在
our control because we're trying to optimize things, right? We're so used to trying to make things as good as they can possibly be because >> that's just our, you know, operating
我們的控制中，因為我們試圖優化事情，對吧？我們這麼習慣於試圖讓事情盡可能好，因為那就是我們的運作
mode. But what what happens when you do that is you don't leave room for like serenity or serendipity. you don't leave room for um like magical things that can
模式。但當你那樣做時，你不會留下空間給像是寧靜或機緣。你不會留下空間給像是神奇的事情可能
happen that it's like you kind of need a little bit of a situation that's out of your control in some ways like you can't you're trying to make it the best
發生的事，像是你有點需要一些不在你控制中的情況，像是你不能——你試圖讓它成為最好的
situation that's possible but sometimes you can't imagine the best situation possible like it might be something that's outside of your imagination totally >> so like sometimes you need to have
可能的情況，但有時你無法想像最好的可能情況，像是它可能是超出你想像的東西，完全
situations where you can let that happen >> totally and that's exactly what happened with embrace just like closing the loop on that was for 10 years I was trying to
所以有時你需要有讓那發生的情況。完全，那就是 Embrace 發生的事，就像是結束那個十年，我試圖
control everything and we just kept encountering like all these setbacks and then you know we had to shut down the company and the minute >> I let go of control magic started to
控制一切，我們不斷遇到所有這些挫折，然後我們不得不關閉公司，當我放下控制的那一刻，神奇的事開始
happen you know like Tony Robbins came in out of nowhere and saved the company like I would have never expected that in a million years and so now you know my
發生，你知道，像是 Tony Robbins 從哪裡冒出來拯救了公司，像是我永遠不會預料到那個，所以現在，你知道的，我
my belief as I said is is giving something your all and then you you surrender the outcome so like in the writing of my book I was getting really
的信念就像我說的是全力以赴然後你臣服於結果，像是在寫我的書時，我在
overwhelmmed leading up to the launch because I had all these overachievers telling me you have to make this a bestseller and you know that means you
發布前變得非常不知所措，因為我有所有這些過度成就者告訴我你必須讓這本書成為暢銷書，你知道這意味著你
have to sell this many books and do this and that and I just was feeling really overwhelmed >> and so a friend came to visit me in in
必須賣這麼多書，做這個那個，我只是感覺真的很不知所措，所以一個朋友來
Honolulu where I live and we had a little ceremony and I only had one copy of the book at that point and I threw it in the ocean.
我住的檀香山看我，我們有一個小儀式，那時我只有一本書，我把它扔進了海裡。
>> This is funny. >> I love that.
這太好笑了。我好喜歡。
>> And it was so beautiful. Yeah. I was like I gave this my soul. And now I give it to the universe. And you know, I watched as the waves kind of carried it.
那太美了。是啊。我說我把我的靈魂給了這個。現在我把它給宇宙。你知道的，我看著浪花帶著它。
And I thought, that's what I want. I'm going to trust that the wave will take this message >> to where it needs to go.
我想，那就是我想要的。我要相信浪會把這個訊息帶到它需要去的地方。
>> Copy. I was like, I needed that.
收到。我說，我需要那個。
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I fished it out. I didn't litter. Like I, you know, I plucked it out afterwards.
是啊。是啊。而且我把它撈出來了。我沒有亂丟垃圾。像是，你知道的，我之後把它撈出來了。
>> My friend and I actually like burned it and buried it under a tree. We had this whole day. It was very beautiful. But it was just like there's something so beautiful about surrender,
我和我朋友其實把它燒了，埋在一棵樹下。我們有整整一天。非常美麗。但就是，臣服有一些這麼美麗的東西，
right? That again I think helps us with our >> with our mental well-being. And coming back to what you said, I think >> you you hit the nail on the head. So
對吧？我覺得那再一次幫助我們的心理健康。回到你說的，我覺得你說到重點了。
Tony Robbins says this. He says >> success without fulfillment is the ultimate failure, right? And how many people do we know who outwardly are so successful but >> are empty on the inside
Tony Robbins 說這個。他說成功沒有滿足是最終的失敗，對吧？我們認識多少人外表上這麼成功但內心空虛
>> or chasing something chasing the fulfillment but it's not there.
或追逐什麼，追逐滿足但那不在那裡。
>> I think that's the the disconnect or the misalignment.
我覺得那就是斷開或錯位。
>> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. They're always comparing themselves to the next person and as I said the goal coat post keeps moving. So happiness is just like this illusion. It's this thing that you can
是啊。沒錯。他們總是和下一個人比較，就像我說的，目標線不斷移動。所以快樂就像是這個錯覺。這是你永遠
never attain. And back to the idea that you said of like self-compassion, of that being like really important. When you were saying that whole thing, I had this really strong image in my mind
無法得到的東西。回到你說的自我同情的概念，那真的很重要。當你說那整段話時，我腦中有一個非常強烈的畫面，
where I imagined like us as like a glass ball and self-compassion is like the layers of like plastic coating, like bouncy rubber coating that you put on
我想像我們像是一個玻璃球，自我同情像是一層層塑膠塗層，像是彈性橡膠塗層，你塗在
the glass ball so that like if you you know fall, if you fail then you don't your glass ball doesn't break, right?
玻璃球上，這樣如果你掉下來，如果你失敗了，你的玻璃球不會破，對吧？
like you're just like, "Oh, that's okay." Like, I will literally bounce back. Like, I can It doesn't matter.
像是你會說「喔，沒關係。」像是，我會真的彈回來。像是，我可以——沒關係。
Like, the outcome of this one speech doesn't determine who I am because I already am sure of who I am. I know I'm amazing in these ways.
像是，這次演講的結果不決定我是誰，因為我已經確定我是誰了。我知道我在這些方面很棒。
>> Exactly. >> And whether or not like if it goes badly, then that's a fluke or like it went badly for whatever reason. It doesn't matter. I'm not
沒錯。而且像是如果它進行得不好，那是意外或像是因為某些原因進行得不好。沒關係。我
>> my my my, you know, my ego or my my conception of myself that is this glass ball doesn't shatter.
的自我或我對自己的概念，這個玻璃球，不會破碎。
>> I love that. It's untangling your achievement with your identity.
我好喜歡。這是把你的成就和你的身份解開。
>> Yep. >> From your identity. >> Yeah.
是的。從你的身份。是啊。
>> Yes. We are worth more than the sum of our achievements.
是的。我們的價值超過我們成就的總和。
>> Yeah. >> Right. We are worth more than how many likes we get on social media. And I I really worry about this with a younger generation,
是啊。對。我們的價值超過我們在社交媒體上得到多少讚。我真的很擔心年輕一代，
>> right? That they they put a post out there and they don't get that many likes and it like destroys their sense of self.
對吧？他們發一個帖子，沒有得到那麼多讚，這像是摧毀了他們的自我感。
>> Yeah. you know, so I think this this idea of resilience, I love that rubber ball uh image, but that that's even more important in today's world.
是啊。你知道的，所以我覺得這個韌性的概念，我好喜歡那個橡膠球的畫面，但那在今天的世界更重要。
>> Yeah. So, Jane, to wrap up with something more tactical for our audience in your memoir, you write, "We cannot heal what we cannot feel." >> But what about people who've been numb
是啊。所以，Jane，用更實際的東西來結束，為我們的觀眾，在你的回憶錄中，你寫道「我們無法療癒我們無法感受的。」但那些已經麻木
for so long or pushing aside the emotion, sweeping it under the rug, and they don't even know where to start? How do you begin to feel again? Again,
很久或把情緒推開、掃到地毯下面、甚至不知道從哪裡開始的人呢？你怎麼開始重新感受？再一次，
taking that time to pause and sit with in stillness. And at first, you might not feel very much. I certainly didn't.
花時間暫停和坐在靜止中。起初，你可能不會感覺到很多。我當然沒有。
Um, but the more I sat with myself, the more I'd start to feel little sensations. And that's the thing. Every emotion is correlated to a physical sensation. So, can we start tuning into
但我越是和自己坐在一起，我越開始感覺到小小的感覺。那就是關鍵。每一種情緒都和一種身體感覺相關。那我們能開始調頻到
that? And can we allow ourselves like the grace and be patient enough with ourselves that we do that slowly?
那個嗎？我們能給自己足夠的恩典和耐心慢慢做這個嗎？
>> That's the first thing I would suggest.
那是我建議的第一件事。
The second which I said earlier is really about the power of community.
第二個我之前說過的是關於社區的力量。
Right? Healing doesn't happen in isolation. And so the more we can surround ourselves with whether it's friends, therapists, teachers that can create that sense of safety for us, then the
對吧？療癒不會在孤立中發生。我們越能被朋友、心理師、老師圍繞，他們能為我們創造安全感，那
nervous system relaxes enough to start feeling and to access those emotions. So um these are small practices but there are things that have been you know really really huge in my life. Um okay
神經系統就夠放鬆，開始感受和接觸那些情緒。所以這些是小練習但在我生活中非常重要。好
so last question Jane is can you tell us a little bit more about what you're working on today and then also where we can find you online and where people can
最後一個問題，Jane，你能告訴我們更多關於你今天在做什麼，還有人們可以在哪裡找到你在線上和哪裡可以
um find like a wave we break. >> Sure. Yes. So I stepped down from Embrace in May. Um we finally reached our goal of saving a million babies as of this year. That's incredible.
找到 Like a Wave We Break。當然。是的。所以我在五月從 Embrace 退下來了。我們終於在今年達到了拯救一百萬個嬰兒的目標。太棒了。
>> Congratulations. Oh my god. Inconceivable. >> Yeah. So, it feels so good. Uh and it feels so good to say that doesn't define all of who I am,
恭喜。天啊。不可思議。是啊。所以，感覺太好了。而且感覺太好說那不定義我所有的人，
>> right? And I think what I'm most proud of is actually learning how to embrace myself.
對吧？我覺得我最驕傲的是其實學會如何擁抱自己。
>> Yeah. And so what I'm moving into now is leadership coaching and development and really teaching all of the things that I've learned in my journey both with
是啊。所以我現在轉向的是領導力教練和發展，真的教所有我在旅程中學到的東西，不管是
embrace and my healing journey to others to help them step into their fullest selves for them to step into alignment to teach how do you feel your feelings
Embrace 還是我的療癒旅程，給其他人，幫助他們進入他們最完整的自己，讓他們進入一致，教如何感受你的感受
you know um and so these are all tools that I have gained so much from and I feel so passionate about doing this with others and so I'm doing that both like
你知道，所以這些都是我從中獲益良多的工具，我對和其他人做這個充滿熱情，所以我在做這個，不管是
on a corporate level and on an indiv individual level as well. And so for people who are interested in that, um my website is janemariechen.com.
企業層面還是個人層面。對有興趣的人，我的網站是 janemariechen.com。
I've got lots of resources there for people who want to go down a development or healing path. And then um yeah, you can reach out to me there for any
我那裡有很多資源給想走發展或療癒道路的人。然後，是啊，你可以在那裡聯繫我關於任何
inquiries on the leadership coaching as well. >> Amazing. Amazing.
領導力教練的詢問。太棒了。太棒了。
>> I feel like you're a professor or a lecturer. Like if you have like a course on this, I'm like people would do office hours for sure. This was office hours for us.
我覺得你像是教授或講師。像是如果你有關於這個的課程，我覺得人們會來辦公室時間的。這對我們來說是辦公室時間。
>> Honestly, I appreciate that. I mean, you're a guru. You've like studied under the You've literally studied under the best.
老實說，我很感謝。我是說，你是大師。你像是跟著——你真的跟著最好的人學習。
>> I h I feel so lucky and I I feel like writing the book, I got to bring a little piece of all my teachers into the
我覺得好幸運，我覺得寫這本書，我得以把我所有老師的一小部分帶進
writing of the book. Um so for those interested in picking up the book, it's called Like a Wave We Break. It's available at any bookstore and on
書的寫作中。對有興趣的人，這本書叫 Like a Wave We Break。任何書店和
Amazon. I really hope you guys um get something out of it. But it's a message that that truly came from the depths of my soul. Yeah, it's a beautiful book and
Amazon 都有。我真心希望你們能從中得到一些東西。但這是真的來自我靈魂深處的訊息。是啊，這是一本很美的書，
there's a lot of learnings in it too. A lot of takeaways.
裡面也有很多學習。很多收穫。
>> Awesome. Thank you so much. >> Yay.
太棒了。非常感謝。耶。