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This is personal finance 101 from two Harvard and Stanford graduates. And let's be honest, they didn't teach us this in school. We became self-made millionaires in our 20s. And we're
這是來自兩位哈佛和史丹佛畢業生的個人理財 101。老實說，學校沒有教我們這些。我們在 20 多歲時成為白手起家的百萬富翁。我們要
sharing the tips, tricks, and also mindset that helped get us there. I'm Sheree. I'm Jean. And we're the Tiger Sisters.
分享幫助我們到達那裡的技巧、訣竅，還有心態。我是 Sheree。我是 Jean。我們是 Tiger Sisters。
And so the outline for this episode is that Gan and I are going to share a little bit more about our backgrounds, where we grew up, how we grew up. We
這一集的大綱是 Gan 和我要分享更多關於我們的背景，我們在哪裡長大，我們如何長大。我們
don't come from generational wealth. So everything we learned, we kind of learned the hard way and want to share that with you. And then in this episode, we're also going to give very tactical
不是來自世代財富。所以我們學到的一切，我們都是從艱難中學到的，想要和你分享。然後在這一集中，我們還要給出非常戰術性的
advice and break it down from beginner to intermediate to advanced strategies.
建議，從初級到中級到高級策略來分解。
And we'll get started right after this break. Hey guys, quick break to let you know that we now have merch on sistersmatcha.com. We have sweatshirts and t-shirts that we designed ourselves.
我們會在這個休息後開始。嘿夥計們，快速休息讓你們知道我們現在在 sistersmatcha.com 有週邊商品了。我們有我們自己設計的衛衣和 T 恤。
Go check it out. And please rate us five stars on Spotify and Apple podcasts.
去看看。請在 Spotify 和 Apple podcasts 上給我們五星評價。
These ratings are so important for the distribution and survival of Tiger Sisters podcast. Thank you for your support. And we're back. So, the first section, Gan and I are going to share
這些評價對 Tiger Sisters 播客的分發和生存非常重要。感謝你的支持。我們回來了。所以，第一部分，Gan 和我要分享
more about our backgrounds. And honestly, the biggest contributor to becoming a self-made millionaire in our 20s had to do with our first job out of college. And this goes back to what we
更多關於我們的背景。老實說，在 20 多歲成為白手起家百萬富翁的最大貢獻者與我們大學畢業後的第一份工作有關。這要回到我們
chose to study in school. So, Jean, can you talk a little bit more about how you thought through that? Yeah. So, in college, I basically had the concept
在學校選擇學習的東西。那麼，Jean，你能多談談你是怎麼思考這個的嗎？是的。所以，在大學裡，我基本上有這個概念
that I wanted to work in business or do something in business, but I went to a liberal arts school. So we we didn't have a business major. So the closest
我想在商業領域工作或做一些商業方面的事情，但我去的是一所文理學院。所以我們沒有商業專業。所以最接近的
that I could get was studying economics. So that was kind of like where I decided to focus my energy. And once I was actually in the economics program, what
是學習經濟學。所以這就是我決定集中精力的地方。一旦我真正進入經濟學項目，
I did was I looked to the older students and I kind of looked to see who was sort of being like upheld and acclaimed as being like the most successful seniors
我做的是看向年長的學生，我看看誰被認為是最成功的大四學生
and like what jobs they were getting. And it was like pretty, it became pretty obvious to me that there were just like a few jobs that everyone was like, "Oh
以及他們得到什麼工作。這變得很明顯，有些工作每個人都會說，「哦
my god, like you got you got a job at McKenzie. Like, oh my god, you got um you got into Goldman, you got into Morgan Stanley." And so that was kind of
天哪，你在麥肯錫得到了工作。天哪，你進了高盛，你進了摩根士丹利。」所以那是我第一次
like the first time I even really heard about those companies cuz that's not what we grew up with, right? So once I like heard that enough times and I
真正聽到這些公司因為那不是我們成長的環境，對吧？所以一旦我聽到足夠多次，我
started to ask about it and like learn about what these companies even were, that was kind of how I even formed the goal for myself where I was like, "Okay,
開始問相關問題並了解這些公司是什麼，這就是我如何為自己形成目標的，我說，「好的，
I want to get a job at Goldman Sachs out of school. That's going to be my goal for the next four years of my life." So
我想畢業後在高盛找到一份工作。這將是我接下來四年人生的目標。」所以
then once I sort of had that goal in mind, I worked backwards and then I figured out like, okay, what are all the things that I need to do in order to get
一旦我有了那個目標，我就往回推，然後我弄清楚，好的，我需要做什麼才能
this job out of school? I need to get an internship my junior year at ideally at the company, which didn't happen because it was the great recession, but still it
畢業後得到這份工作？我需要在大三理想情況下在這家公司得到一個實習。這沒有發生因為當時是大衰退，但仍然
was it was a good goal, right? So I was like, okay, I need to get that um internship. then before that I need to do something valuable my sophomore year
這是一個好目標，對吧？所以我說，好的，我需要得到那個實習。然後在那之前我需要在大二做一些有價值的事情
so that I can like ladder up into the internship like all that sort of stuff.
這樣我可以晉升到實習，所有那類事情。
Even if you don't know what you want to do, a lot of it is being curious and asking questions and then also like looking at people around you and people
即使你不知道你想做什麼，很多時候是保持好奇心、問問題，然後也看看你週圍的人和
that you admire and then learning from them and their path and almost trying to copy them. I think it's very legitimate to copy. Yeah, it's really important. I
你欣賞的人，然後向他們和他們的道路學習，幾乎試著模仿他們。我認為模仿是非常合理的。是的，這真的很重要。我
think more than anything else like it's really important to have that mindset where you're curious about others and then you like seek out information. Um you're talking to people, you're
認為你不需要重新發明輪子。如果有些東西有效，你就照著做。
googling things and like having a like once you have the information you can create a plan of like how best to get there. Yeah. And like it's not saying
那你呢 Sheree？你的背景是什麼以及你是如何思考你在學校學習什麼的？
that just because you create the plan it'll automatically be successful, right? Like you could be hit with the greatest recession in co Yeah. in like 20 years or whatever. But as long as you
是的。所以我也去了一所文理學院。我是心理學和經濟學雙主修。
have something an idea of like what you're working for, what you're working towards, you can always pivot. You can always make adjustments. I guess the takeaway here is that like information
我真的很喜歡心理學，但我也知道我想進入商業領域。所以經濟學感覺像是正確的選擇。
is power. Yeah. In the sense that like even when you're in undergrad, you didn't really know what roles out of school would be like highaying or would
我做的和 Jean 類似的是我看向年長的學生。我看到誰得到了很酷的工作，誰做得好。
be very successful or lead you to like wouldn't lead you to long-term career success. But by like talking to more people and seeing what was around you,
對我來說，這是科技。我看到人們去 Google、Facebook，這些科技公司。我說，這就是我想做的。
you can kind of put the pieces together.
所以我把目標設定在畢業後進入科技領域。然後我從那裡往回推。
In that way, I feel like I was very lucky that the opportunities were there, but then I had to do a lot of the leg work to even like understand the
我需要實習。我需要項目。我需要在簡歷上展示一些東西證明我對這個領域感興趣並且有能力。
opportunities and then eventually position myself so that I was um a good candidate. And I think also in today's day and age, the equivalent of what that
我認為這真的很重要。無論你的目標是什麼，你都需要往回推並弄清楚你需要採取什麼步驟才能到達那裡。
would be is just doing a Google search.
完全是。讓我們談談我們畢業後的第一份工作因為這是個重要的部分。
There's like so much more information out there today now like on glass door and also just I don't know like LinkedIn salary you can see what industry and
是的。所以我畢業後進入了華爾街。我的第一份工作是在一家投資銀行。
what roles in each industry like which ones how much money they do they make and how to get there is a different story. You kind of have to piece it
我在那裡工作了兩年。這是非常高強度的。每週 80-100 小時。但它教會了我很多關於金融、建模和如何專業地工作。
together through networking etc. Check out our networking 101 episode here here. But also I guess like information is power. can now know like right out of school what to expect in
也許更重要的是，它讓我在年輕時賺了很多錢。這讓我可以開始投資和儲蓄。
those more corporate jobs. Yeah. And even I think I feel like podcasts such as ours like where we really try to lift the veil and share with everyone like
那就是第一桶金的概念。你想在職業生涯早期盡可能多地賺錢。
what are these jobs actually like? What are the jobs that are out there? I think the information is out there but you do have to do the leg work to find it. So
因為那筆錢有最長的時間複利。如果你在 25 歲投資 1 萬美元並且它每年增長 10%，到 65 歲時它會值很多錢。
Sheree, how about you? How did you think about what major to do in school and like what sort of path you wanted to be on in undergrad as it relates to
但如果你在 35 歲投資同樣的金額，它有更少的時間複利所以它不會增長那麼多。
personal finance and your first job out of school? Yeah. So, college was an interesting time. Um, I guess just on the personal finance aspect, like Gan and I both had student loans of some
這就是為什麼早點開始很重要。你越早開始，你的錢就有越多時間增長。
sort and so that definitely like weighed on my mind of like yes, I want to have a really interesting college experience where I can choose all the like most
完全是。那你呢 Sheree？你的第一份工作是什麼？
amazing classes and just really follow my curiosity purely, but also balancing like the reality of like, oh my god, I definitely need a a job out of school
所以我畢業後進入了科技領域。我在一家科技公司做產品經理。
that will help pay loans that I have and pay the expenses that I have. Gene and I don't have generational wealth or family money to fall back on. So really when we
薪水不像投資銀行那麼高，但也不低。而且它有一些很好的股權。
say we're self-made, it, you know, double underlined there. Um, so I felt really lucky because obviously Jean was like looking around to people who were older than her when she was a college
股權是我在 20 多歲時財富的重要部分。如果你在正確的公司，股權可以值很多錢。
student and I have my older tiger sister Jean and she was the one who put me on computer science. So I originally wanted to be a doctor in college.
是的，股權是一個遊戲規則改變者。這是很多人沒有利用的東西。
I really I was good at bio and I liked helping people. So I'm like why don't I be a doctor and doctors at the time make
他們只看基本薪資，但他們沒有看股權的潛在上漲空間。
a a decent living. But then Gene put me on computer science where then I was like further immersed in those classes in the world of Silicon Valley. Not only
如果你在一家成長中的公司，股權可以讓你比單純薪水富有得多。
learning about like what engineers do but how vast this industry is and also how much this industry can pay in kind of like a crazy entrepreneurial business
完全是。讓我們談談初學者策略。對於剛剛開始理財之旅的人。
way as well. You know, like there's a very steady paycheck of like you can be a doctor and you know, you earn this much in salary, but there was kind of
是的。第一件事是追蹤你的支出。你需要知道你的錢去哪裡了。
like a bit of a gamble at the time when I was a student of like, oh my god, there's so many startups blowing up like this is it could be a like crazy
使用像 Mint 或 YNAB 這樣的應用。它會向你展示你在不同類別花了多少錢。
lucrative lifechanging career. So, I think that was really appealing to me as well. In addition to like I enjoyed my computer science classes, but it would
一旦你知道你的錢去哪裡了，你就可以開始做更好的決定。
be I'd be lying if I said like if I had the chance to like pursue, for example, art history or a more like liberal arts degree that might not be as easy to get
是的。第二件事是建立一個緊急基金。這應該是 3-6 個月的開支。
a job out of school. Like that could have also been a path that I went on, but I definitely knew that I couldn't given that like I don't it might I might
這是一個安全網。如果發生了什麼事，比如你失業了或有意外支出，你有錢可以依靠。
not see success there, but I could see more success doing engineering and having more guaranteed guaranteed. It's never guaranteed, but like Yeah, you financial success. Yes, financial
把它放在高利息儲蓄帳戶裡。不要投資它。這是應該隨時可用的錢。
success. Be clear. Um cuz there's a lot of different ways you can define success. I meant financial success given the loans and the bills. Yeah. And so like the context from my perspective is
完全是。第三件事是利用你僱主的 401k 匹配。
that it kind of worked out since we're seven years apart that by the time I had wrapped up two years at Goldman, my first job out of school, I was kind of
如果你的僱主提供匹配，你應該至少貢獻足夠得到完整匹配。這是免費的錢。
looking to decide what I wanted to do next and I wanted to work in tech. And by that time I kind of figured out, okay, the role that I want to do is
不要把免費的錢留在桌上。這是你能得到的最簡單的投資回報。
product manager. And having done all of this like research and having all these conversations, I really found out that it's at the time it was very very hard
是的。這些是基礎。追蹤你的支出，建立緊急基金，並利用你的 401k 匹配。
to break into a product manager role if you didn't have a um technical background, meaning if you didn't study computer science in an undergrad and have a computer science degree. So I
讓我們進入中級策略。這是給已經掌握基礎並準備提升的人。
kind of like I don't know. I feel like I I got lucky and I was able to like leverage the skills that I have and the network that I have to get a product
是的。第一件事是為退休和經紀帳戶最大化你的投資。
management job um without a computer science degree. But that was when I told Sheree because you started undergrad in 2013.
為你的 401k 貢獻最大額。開一個 IRA。開一個應稅經紀帳戶。
That was why I told her I was like you need to study computer science because it's going to set you up and have it's going to set you up so that you have the
你投資越多，你的錢增長越多。在投資中有複利效應。
most options out of undergrad. I think that's the best way to put it is that like it just gives you more freedom, you know, it gives you more financial
是的。第二件事是多元化你的投資組合。不要把所有雞蛋放在一個籃子裡。
freedom if you study something that like you know where you will I don't know what am I trying to say where you know that should you want to take it there is
投資股票、債券、房地產。在不同行業和地區分散你的投資。
a there are lucrative opportunities right out of undergrad. Yes. And like also I'm not saying I don't know if the exact same advice is true today because
多元化降低風險。如果一項投資表現不好，其他可能表現好。
you know in the year of our Lord 2025 I don't know if a computer science degree is as valuable as it was for GBT be replacing engineers these days. Yeah. So
完全是。第三件事是了解稅務策略。理解長期與短期資本利得之間的差異。
I don't know if it's like exactly like word for word like you should get a computer science degree so that you can it's more the mindset. It's more the
長期資本利得稅率更低。所以如果你能持有投資超過一年，你會支付更少的稅。
mindset. It's more like try to talk to people and figure out and understand like what is the best way for me to position myself for my goals right out
考慮利用稅收優惠帳戶如 Roth IRA 以獲得免稅增長。
of school. And if your goal is to um maximize your earning potential right out of school, then you know follow that path. Yeah. And honestly, maximizing your earning potential right out of
是的。稅務策略可以對你的長期財富產生很大影響。這不僅僅是你賺多少，而是你保留多少。
school, the reason why we're talking about it is it just gives you more freedom to then choose what you want to do. I think a lot of people ask me like
讓我們進入高級策略。這是給已經積累了一些財富並想把它提升到下一個水平的人。
right now like how are you able to have a podcast as a full-time job and have this startup as a full-time job. It's because of the decisions that I made
是的。第一件事是考慮房地產投資。房地產可以是建立財富的好方法。
that were informed by Jean back when I was 19 years old that lead me to where I am at 29. Yeah. Well, as a full-time job bootstrapped without having raised
你可以購買出租物業來獲得被動收入。你也可以投資 REITs 而不必自己管理物業。
money. Like we haven't raised any venture capital or like any sort of angel funding or anything like that. We support and pay for everything on our own. Yeah. So, I think like that's kind
房地產也提供稅務優勢如折舊。這可以減少你的應稅收入。
of what I'm harping at and I hope it's not taken the wrong way, but like we're genuinely like sharing our advice so that like if this is what you want to do
是的。第二件事是探索另類投資。這包括私募股權、風險投資、天使投資。
as well, maybe you can develop um a path to that as well. Yeah. And I think even just like being conscientious of it and like thinking about is that something I
這些投資可以提供比傳統股票和債券更高的回報。但它們也有更高的風險。
want to optimize for? Like do I care? Or maybe the answer is no. Like I actually don't care to to do that. like I'm not stressed about student loans or I don't
只有用你可以承受損失的錢投資這些。
have student loans and like I actually want to take the time out of undergrad to explore and like try a lot of different paths then that's great but
完全是。第三件事是建立多個收入來源。不要只依賴一份工作的收入。
this is just like more security for the insecure way that I think but I will say you know what here's another me revealing and being vulnerable another insecure way I know people who have
考慮副業、自由職業、被動收入來源。你擁有的收入來源越多，你的財務就越安全。
studied art history or have studied political science more like liberal artsy uh majors in college and then started working at McKenzie or started working in investment banks like they
是的。這是一個抗衰退的策略。如果你失去了一個收入來源，你有其他的可以依靠。
were able to do that as well. I know like I just don't think I'm that smart that I'm able to do that quite honestly like or it's not all about smarts but
讓我們談談心態因為這是財務成功的重要組成部分。
sometimes it's about access it maybe well I just know that like I was not in a position to do that which is why I needed more of like a bulletproof
是的。第一個心態是像投資者一樣思考。不要只是為了錢而工作。讓錢為你工作。
foolproof plan that I was like I'm going to be an engineer at the time people were hiring for engineering and in tech as product managers this is what I know
每當你賺錢時，想想你如何投資它讓它增長。
is going to be a bit more certain and so that's why I chose that path. Yeah, you were doing everything you could to maximize your chances. Exactly. So now
第二個心態是長期思考。不要被短期波動所左右。
you guys know that's some of the background of how we even thought about like what to study and how to land our first job out of school to set us up on
市場會上漲下跌。但在長期來看，它們傾向於上漲。保持投資並保持耐心。
this path. So that you know the next things that we're going to be talking about in terms of like beginner, intermediate, and advanced tactics are kind of based off of like having
是的。第三個心態是不斷學習。金融世界總是在變化。
expendable income and also having a mindset of like how do we guarantee savings, guarantee a more like stressfree financial life over the next decade. Okay. So Sheree, let's say
閱讀書籍，聽播客，向成功的人學習。你學得越多，你會做出越好的決定。
you're at the point now where you've actually gotten the first job out of school. What are some of the things that you should look out for or definitely
完全是。最後一個想法。不要等待。今天就開始。
do? Mhm. So, the first thing we're going to talk about, and this is like the very beginner um recommendation for us, is basically it's free money. Free money is
你開始越早，你的錢就有越多時間增長。你未來的自己會感謝你的。
401ks. If you have a job out of school, especially at a big company, they often have 401k matching. And basically, this is money that you're putting away for
是的。如果你喜歡這一集，請訂閱 Tiger Sisters 播客。
your retirement. you put it away now um you know when you're not retired when you're working so you can take the money out for when you are retired when you're
在 Spotify 和 Apple Podcasts 上給我們五星評價。這對我們的分發真的很有幫助。
you know 62 to 65 or possibly older there's different time periods you can take it out but basically I think people don't take advantage of this enough because they're not thinking about the
分享就是關愛。感謝收聽。我們下次見。
future in a way that is accessible you're like oh okay 65year-old me you're like I don't think about that now you know I'm 21 22 years old now like why am
拜拜。
I saving for the future but I say that this is free money because many big companies have matching programs. So what this means is that you know you go
我為未來存錢，但我說這是免費的錢，因為很多大公司有配對計劃。意思是你進入
inside the portal, you have to set it up so that when your paycheck comes every 2 weeks, it automatically takes a portion of that out and it puts it into your
入口網站，你必須設定好，這樣每兩週發薪水時，它會自動提撥一部分到你的
401k. So you're basically automatically taking it out and you have some money put into your retirement. That amount of money, some companies do really great matching. They're like, "Whatever money
401k。所以你基本上是自動提撥，你有一些錢放進退休金。那筆錢，有些公司的配對很好。他們說：「你放多少
you put in, we'll put in the same amount." That's what I had at my company, which was fantastic. And that's why it's usually referred to as like free money with these matching programs.
我們就放多少。」這是我公司的做法，非常棒。這就是為什麼這些配對計劃通常被稱為免費的錢。
Yeah. Up to like a certain percentage. Usually like up to 3% or something like that. Exactly. Some other programs that they have like will match up to, you
是啊。最高到某個百分比。通常是 3% 左右。沒錯。有些其他計劃會配對到
know, some sort x%. So you guys just have to do some research to figure out what your program is if you work at a big company. But I would say so many
你知道的，某個百分比。所以如果你在大公司工作，你們要做些研究弄清楚你們的計劃是什麼。但我會說很多
people miss out on this because they they don't think about retirement and they don't think about the future because it is, you know, I don't know 40
人錯過這個機會，因為他們不考慮退休，不考慮未來，因為那是，你知道，大概 40
years away. And then just to sort of set the basic context, the reason why you would even want to contribute to the 401k program through your company is
年後。然後簡單說一下基本背景，你想透過公司參加 401k 計劃的原因是
because the money that you put into the 401k is contributed pre-tax. So, let's say you put in, you know, $100,000 over the course of however many years.
因為你放進 401k 的錢是稅前提撥的。所以，假設你放進了，你知道，不管多少年放了 10 萬美元。
Instead of if you receive that money as your income, usually you would have to pay like say $30,000 in taxes. But if you had put all of that into your 401k,
如果你把那筆錢當作收入，通常你要付大約 3 萬美元的稅。但如果你把所有錢放進 401k，
then all of that 100,000 goes straight into the investments and it sort of grows and then you only get taxed when you actually take the money out postretirement. And the thinking is that
那所有 10 萬美元直接進入投資，然後它會增長，你只在退休後實際提領時才被課稅。這個想法是
after you've retired, you aren't really making money. so that you pay a lower tax rate in the future. Correct. And you've had time for all of those investments to compound and you've
退休後，你不再賺錢，所以未來付較低的稅率。沒錯。而且你有時間讓所有投資複利增長，你
invested more money than you would have were it not in a 401k. That's a really really good explanation. Oh, thank you.
投資的錢比不在 401k 裡多。這是非常非常好的解釋。喔，謝謝。
That it was super clear and I think I would double underline the word compound. Yeah. So the power of compounding. It's amazing to talk about retirement funds because that is 40
超級清楚，我會在「複利」這個詞下面畫雙底線。是啊。所以複利的力量。談退休基金很驚人，因為那是 40
years in the future and my brain can't even comprehend the power of compounding over time, but think about like your money over 40 years literally in investments. Like you just leave it in
年後的事，我的大腦無法理解複利隨時間的力量，但想想你的錢在投資裡 40 年。你就把它放在
there and ostensibly like you know your investments will grow year over year how however many Yeah. What is it the 10% or whatever? Yeah. Is the average. I've never really thought about it that
那裡，表面上你的投資每年都會增長，不管多少。是啊。是 10% 還是什麼？是啊。是平均。老實說我從沒仔細想過，
closely to be honest, but it is actually really helpful that you're kind of like putting in 30% more money that can then compound over time. Mhm. That's cool.
但多放 30% 的錢然後複利增長確實很有幫助。嗯。很酷。
Yeah, you don't really have to manage it either. So, the reason why this is in the beginner section is that basically all you need to do if you haven't
是啊，你也不需要管理它。所以這在初學者部分的原因是，基本上如果你還沒
already um if you want, this is not financial advice. You you guys can do whatever you want. I guess what we did what we did and we are pleased about
做過，如果你想的話，這不是財務建議。你們可以做任何想做的。我猜我們做了什麼，我們對此很滿意
is that just start putting money into your 401k through your work. Just configure it once and then it'll be taken out of your paycheck automatically. You don't have to think
就是開始透過工作把錢放進 401k。只要設定一次，它就會自動從薪水中扣除。你不需要
about it. Yeah. Well, what percentage contribution did you put? So, uh I actually don't remember what percentage contribution I did, but the way I don't remember either, but it doesn't matter.
想它。是啊。你提撥了多少百分比？我其實不記得我提撥了多少百分比，但我也不記得，但沒關係。
The way that I thought about it was that I maxed it out every single year. I maxed it out so that I would do You maxed out the match. I maxed out the
我的想法是每年都把它拉滿。我拉滿了讓我能——你拉滿了配對。我拉滿了
match contribution. Yeah. Um for my 401k, which uh I think ended up maxing out like however much money you can contribute to your 401k. And it doesn't
配對提撥。是啊。對我的 401k，最後拉滿了你能提撥到 401k 的最高金額。而且不
matter if you do that if you choose to have the most amount of money taken out of your paycheck for a short amount of time or you kind of drip it over time.
管你是選擇短時間內從薪水中扣最多錢，還是慢慢分次扣。
It really depends on your lifestyle, your needs, and your need for liquidity in your life. If it's taken out even before you get your paycheck, then you
真的取決於你的生活方式、需求和對流動性的需要。如果在你拿到薪水前就扣掉了，那你
kind of don't miss it because you don't realize that it was even there. I think I had an ex-boyfriend um who worked at the same company as me and we talked
根本不會想念它，因為你不會意識到它的存在。我有個前男友在同一家公司，我們談過
about this about personal finance and his strategy was to max out the contribution over a short period of time such that his like salary his take-home salary was like $1,000 a month. He's
這個個人理財的話題，他的策略是在短時間內把提撥拉滿，這樣他的實領薪水只有每月 1000 美元。他
just like, "Let me just get it over with, you know?" Okay. Um how did he pay for his like he had like he had like savings and other stuff otherwise to use
就是「讓我趕快弄完，你知道嗎？」好。他怎麼付生活費？他有儲蓄和其他東西可以用，
from, but he's just like let me just do this, you know? It was just I don't that was his strategy where I dripped it out over time. He wanted the max pain. He
但他就是「讓我這樣做，你知道嗎？」這是他的策略，而我是分次慢慢扣。他想要最大的痛苦。他
wanted He wanted the max pain. I don't know. But that just sucks to see your paycheck is like $700. Like I don't know. I wouldn't want that. Yeah. Okay.
想要最大的痛苦。我不知道。但看到薪水只有 700 美元真的很糟。我不想那樣。是啊。好。
And next we'll be talking about the intermediate section of this podcast and the most impactful book that we read that changed our financial thinking forever. And Jean actually put me on
接下來我們要談這集 podcast 的中級部分，以及永遠改變我們財務思維的最有影響力的書。Jean 推薦給我的
this book. Thank you. It is remit Seth's book called I will teach you to be rich which is a very catchy catchy title actually. Should we make that the title
這本書。謝謝。是 Ramit Sethi 的書，叫《我會教你變有錢》，標題非常吸引人。我們要不要把它作為
of our podcast? Sure. of our podcast episode. I mean it's funny because the the the title is very catchy. It's not really about teaching you how to be
我們的 podcast 標題？當然。我們這集的標題。我是說很好笑，因為標題很吸引人。但它其實不是教你如何
rich. It's more about teaching you to have like a very healthy um healthy habits to then I guess eventually be rich through compounding and making money of your own that you then allocate
變有錢。更多是教你養成非常健康的習慣，然後透過複利和賺自己的錢，正確配置後，最終變有錢。
correctly. Honestly, that book changed my life. like I don't know who told me to read that book but or how I discovered it but I read it and there
老實說，那本書改變了我的人生。我不知道是誰叫我讀那本書或我怎麼發現它的，但我讀了，書裡有
are things that I implemented that you know this was like 15 years ago that are still my go-to standard today like for example the okay the good thing about
一些我實施的東西，你知道這是大約 15 年前的事，到今天仍然是我的標準做法。比如——好，那本書的優點
the book and obviously we encourage you guys to read it is that it had very directive specific things to do so one of the things that I remember it said
是，我們鼓勵你們讀，它有非常明確具體的事情要做。我記得它說的一件事是
open a Charles Schwab checking account because one you can do it online just you know you don't have to go in person and then two the ATM card that you get
開一個 Charles Schwab 支票帳戶，因為一可以線上開戶，不用親自去，二你拿到的 ATM 卡
gives you refunds for any ATM fees. It was very tactical. Yes.
可以退還任何 ATM 手續費。非常具體實用。是的。
Like very random tidbits. Yeah. And it was like open a Vanguard fund specifically like put your money in like this type of fund in Vanguard. I love that. Well, I think it's also really
像是非常隨機的小技巧。是啊。它還說專門開一個 Vanguard 基金，把錢放進 Vanguard 的這種基金。我很喜歡。我覺得也很
important that like these little actions compound over time. Like we're going to keep talking about the power of compounding, but also like to be rich and to be wealth and to be self-made
重要的是這些小行動會隨時間複利。我們會繼續談複利的力量，但要變有錢、有財富、白手起家成為
millionaires. Like there is no silver bullet. Maybe I should have said this in the beginning, but there is no silver bullet where like we got rich overnight.
百萬富翁。沒有銀彈。也許我應該在開頭說，但沒有銀彈讓我們一夜致富。
Like everything we do is building and acrewing wealth over a long period of time.
我們做的每件事都是在長期內積累財富。
Wealth. And I think it's also just like feeling like you kind of like did the right thing and feeling like you have like a strong foundation. Yeah. Like I
財富。我覺得也是感覺自己做對了事，感覺有堅實的基礎。是啊。我
feel like that book really helped provide some just really key steps when like after graduation I was like what do I do? What do I do? I have no idea.
覺得那本書真的提供了一些關鍵步驟，畢業後我完全不知道該怎麼辦。我該怎麼辦？我完全不知道。
Yeah. Um so thank you. Thank you Sephi.
是啊。所以謝謝。謝謝 Sethi。
Um also I think the biggest takeaway from from that book for me was the section on budgeting. Okay. And we'll go through a breakdown of like how to think
另外我覺得那本書對我最大的收穫是關於預算的部分。好。我們會講一個如何思考
about budgeting. But I want to start first about talking about the mindset of budgeting. For me, when I was a new grad, I was just like paralyzed for
預算的分解。但我想先談談預算的心態。對我來說，剛畢業時，我好幾個月都
months. And I actually talked about this in therapy because I didn't have a good relationship with money. I was like scared to spend money because I didn't
癱瘓了。我其實在心理諮詢中談過這個，因為我和金錢的關係不好。我害怕花錢，因為我不
know how much money I was spending and how much I could spend, which it was really useful. So, like I kind of lived a life out of fear where I'd be like,
知道我花了多少錢，我可以花多少，這真的很有用。所以我活在恐懼中，我會想
"Oh, I don't want to go to that event cuz I guess I'll have to Uber, but like the Uber's like $30. Can I afford that right now?" You know what I mean? Like
「喔，我不想去那個活動，因為我得叫 Uber，但 Uber 要 30 美元。我現在付得起嗎？」你懂我意思嗎？
it like sent me into a spiral. But you made like so much money out of undergrad. Exactly. Like that was the bad part. I just like didn't know where
它讓我陷入焦慮。但你畢業就賺很多錢。沒錯。那就是糟糕的地方。我就是不知道
the limit was cuz I didn't do some calcul like initial calculations. It like came at me all at once cuz in undergrad I had this mindset where like
上限在哪裡，因為我沒做一些初始計算。一下子全部湧來，因為在大學我有這種心態
I had you didn't have money. I didn't have money and I was like, "Oh my god, can I spend that money on a sweet green salad?" Oh, wait. You know what I mean?
我——你沒有錢。我沒有錢，我會想「天啊，我能花那筆錢買 Sweet Green 沙拉嗎？」喔等等。你懂我意思嗎？
Or like should I go to the dining hall?
或者我應該去學校餐廳？
Like kind of like that mindset which carried over, but it didn't make sense now that I did make money, right? It was an outdated mindset. Exactly. It was like scarcity in college, which didn't
那種心態延續下來，但現在我賺錢了就沒道理了，對吧？這是過時的心態。沒錯。在大學是匱乏心態，
need to be I didn't need to have that mindset after school. So, I think the thing that was really important was to then be like, "This is how much I'm
畢業後不需要有那種心態。所以，我覺得真正重要的是「這是我花的錢。
spending. This is how much I can spend.
這是我可以花的錢。
This is how much should go into savings.
這是應該存的錢。
How much should go into 401k?" My mindset when it came to like budgeting out of school is that I didn't really do it and I think I was also like avoidant
401k 應該放多少？」我對預算的心態是，畢業後我其實沒做，我覺得我對金錢也是逃避
about money aside from like these few things that room Sethi said to do in the book. So I like did those things and then other than that I was kind of like
的，除了 Ramit Sethi 書裡說的那幾件事。所以我做了那些事，除此之外我有點
avoidant like I didn't want to think about money but luckily I had done the step where I kind of tried to optimize for a job that was lucrative out of
逃避，不想考慮金錢，但幸運的是我做了一步，就是畢業時優先選擇高薪工作。
school. So like I definitely had enough money to like cover all my expenses and more, but I just never like thought about that. So I never budgeted. I never
所以我絕對有足夠的錢支付所有開銷還有剩，但我從沒想過。所以我從沒做預算。我從沒
was like, can I afford this? Can I afford that? But I was pretty frugal cuz like similar to you, I was And also pretty much all I did was work and like
想「我付得起這個嗎？付得起那個嗎？」但我很節儉，因為和你一樣，我——而且基本上我只做的就是工作和
occasionally go out to dinner. But you also had many dinners covered by work too. Yes. So like you didn't have to like think about that. Yeah. And like
偶爾出去吃飯。但你很多晚餐也是公司付的。是的。所以你不用想那個。是啊。而且
the gym was at work. I think we paid like a nominal free fee every month for it. Like I just didn't really have that many expense. You you don't have that
健身房在公司。我們好像每月付很少的費用。我就是沒什麼開銷。當你每週工作 90 小時時就是沒什麼
many expenses when you work 90 hours a week. Like that's just and and like you're not really traveling anywhere because you're working on the weekends too, right? You know, so you didn't have
開銷。就是這樣，而且你沒有到處旅行，因為週末也在工作，對吧？你知道，所以你沒有
the freedom of leisure time. Yeah. To even spend your money. Have time to even spend money. Um, and then like occasionally, I don't know, like we
休閒時間的自由。是啊。甚至沒有時間花錢。連花錢的時間都沒有。然後偶爾，我不知道，我們
would go out to clubs, but like I was a girl, so then like this was 15 years ago, but so like you know, someone would have a table and then you'd just be like
會去夜店，但我是女生，而且這是 15 年前的事，所以你知道，有人會有卡座，你就
at your friend's table and like I I wasn't spending that much money to be honest. Um, so I didn't really think about it. So it suited my money avoidant
在朋友的桌子旁，老實說我沒花那麼多錢。所以我沒真的想過。這適合我當時逃避金錢的
mindset at the time. I was avoidant, too. Avoidant is such a good word here.
心態。我也是逃避的。逃避是個很好的詞。
Like I just didn't want to know cuz I was just scared to know that if I was spending a lot of money, I was like scared I would get in trouble with
我就是不想知道，因為我害怕知道如果我花了很多錢，我會被
myself. So I just like So I just avoided it for maybe like five months, but it kind of like drove me crazy cuz I was just like, "Oh." Oh, you never talked to
自己罵。所以我就逃避了大概五個月，但這讓我快瘋了，因為我就是「喔」。喔，你從沒跟
me about it. Yeah. I talked to my therapist about it. Oh, why didn't you ask me? Cuz I was afraid I was going to get yelled at by me? Yeah. For what?
我說過。是啊。我跟心理師說的。喔，你為什麼不問我？因為我怕被你罵？是啊。為什麼？
Reprimanded for not budgeting. Oh, so this is the breakdown. Um, this is a guideline. Obviously, the numbers are a bit squishy and you can make it your own, but basically this is what the
因為沒做預算被訓斥。喔，這是分解。這是指南。顯然數字有點彈性，你可以調整，但基本上這是
the budget breakdown is. 50% goes into fixed cost. This is like how much you're spending every month on like rent and food, your car payment, things you need
預算分解。50% 用於固定成本。這是像你每月花在房租、食物、車貸、生活必需品上的錢。
to live. So, you know, after you have your take-home salary, 40 50% can go to your fixed costs. And also, you know, these are fixed costs like utilities, student loans, these are generally
所以，你知道，拿到實領薪水後，50% 可以用於固定成本。還有，你知道，這些固定成本像水電費、學貸，通常是
things you can't really change. I mean, you can get cheaper housing. Gan and I always optimize for cheap cheap housing.
你沒辦法改變的東西。我是說，你可以找更便宜的住房。Gan 和我總是優先找便宜住房。
Um, so, you know, take a look at where where things can flex. 10% should go into your investments. This is like your 401k or your index funds. Usually 5 to
所以，你知道，看看哪裡可以調整。10% 應該用於投資。這是像你的 401k 或指數基金。通常 5 到
10% can go into savings. This is if you want to travel or you have an emergency fund or if you're saving for, you know, a wedding or a big thing in the future
10% 可以用於儲蓄。這是如果你想旅行或有緊急基金，或者為未來的婚禮或大事存錢。
that's coming up. And the last category, this is what remmit Sethie talks about and what I really took away is guilt-free spending. Like I spent with so much guilt because I just like didn't
最後一個類別，這是 Ramit Sethi 說的，也是我真正學到的，就是無罪惡感消費。我花錢時充滿罪惡感，因為我
know how much I was spending and if I was going over. But this is around 20 to 25%. This is like you can spend on going to the spa, getting your matcha, getting
不知道我花了多少錢，有沒有超支。但這大約是 20 到 25%。這是像你可以花在做 spa、買抹茶、做
your nails done without feeling bad cuz you know it's all within this bucket of like this is spending for fun and for leisure that I can just use up. I think
指甲而不覺得愧疚，因為你知道這都在這個桶裡，這是用於娛樂和休閒的消費。我覺得
probably I was a little hyperbolic in saying that I like never budget in my life. I think what I probably I think what I did at the time is I like looked
我說我從沒做過預算可能有點誇張。我覺得當時我可能是看了
at these guidelines and I like assessed my own personal situation like once or twice and I was like okay I'm doing fine within these guidelines and then I kind
這些指南，一兩次評估了我自己的情況，然後想「好，我在這些指南內做得不錯」，然後我就
of just never thought about it again and I was like okay I'm making enough money so that my natural um inclinations and how I naturally spend money is not
再也沒想過，我想「好，我賺夠多錢，我的自然傾向和消費方式沒有
exceeding these guidelines. So, like I'm good. And then I just never really thought about it. But to be honest, I could have been much more nice and to myself and like permissive in my
超過這些指南。」所以我沒問題。然後我就再也沒想過。但老實說，我本可以對自己更好一點，在消費上更寬容，
spending because I love shopping. I love fashion and I like love spending on clothes. And I think I could have had I had the time just done more shopping and
因為我喜歡購物。我喜歡時尚，喜歡買衣服。如果有時間，我本可以多購物
just like enjoyed myself more. I could have enjoyed life a bit more out of school. Yeah. Like one of my friends bought a couch. This is maybe when I was
多享受自己。畢業後我本可以多享受生活。是啊。像我一個朋友買了沙發。這可能是我
like 23, 24 and still kind of in that scarcity mindset. I, you know, and then he bought a couch and he's like, "Yeah, it was like 2500." I was like, "Huh?"
23、24 歲，還在那種匱乏心態時。我，你知道，然後他買了沙發，他說「是啊，2500 美元。」我說「什麼？」
Like, "You paid 22 over $2,000 for a couch?" I was like, "Not everyone gets their couch from Facebook Marketplace." Like, didn't you have a couch? Yeah.
「你花了超過 2000 美元買沙發？」我想「不是每個人都從 Facebook Marketplace 買沙發。」你不是有沙發嗎？是啊。
From Facebook Marketplace that like we, you know, paid $80 for. $80? You know what I mean? It was like a used couch. I guess that's a that's a great deal though. Did you like
從 Facebook Marketplace 買的，我們花了 80 美元。80 美元？你懂我意思嗎？是二手沙發。我猜那算很劃算。你
the couch? No, it was smelly and uncomfortable. Ew. And so, you know, but then but the thing is your roommates also were in the same mindset as you,
喜歡那沙發嗎？不，又臭又不舒服。噁。所以，你知道，但你的室友也和你有同樣的心態，
even though they were doing the same thing just as well. We were just so they were in the same same scarcity mindset.
即使他們做得一樣好。我們就是——他們也有同樣的匱乏心態。
We were we were in the same boat. We've had the same experiences. It was kind of crazy that like I could have had nicer things. I mean, you know, looking back
我們同舟共濟。有過相同的經歷。挺瘋狂的，我本可以擁有更好的東西。我是說，你知道，回顧
on it now or just enjoyed a bit more, but obviously we are where we are. It's just so funny because your roommates at the time worked in investment banking in
現在，或者多享受一點，但顯然我們走到了這裡。很好笑，因為你當時的室友在投資銀行和
Facebook, right? And in tech, and we got like a stinky couch and we got like tables and stuff from Facebook marketplaces for $10. Like our TV stand
Facebook 工作，對吧？還有科技業，我們卻買了臭沙發，還從 Facebook Marketplace 花 10 美元買桌子什麼的。我們的電視架
was an IKEA table that was messed up. It was like scratched all over for $10. I guess those things weren't that important to you guys at the time. It
是一張壞掉的 IKEA 桌子。到處都是颳痕，10 美元。我猜那些東西當時對你們不重要。
wasn't, but I was just like, I guess we didn't need to do that given how much we were spending. But it was our first place out of school. Like it's not I
不重要，但我就想，鑒於我們花了多少，我猜不需要這樣做。但這是畢業後第一個住處。我
guess it's not meant to be nice, but now I'm just like what the hell? Like I mean that's that's fine. I don't see like nothing matched. I guess another thing
猜不一定要漂亮，但現在我就想什麼鬼？我是說沒關係。什麼都不搭。我猜另一件
was that like something that I'm very proud of is that all my time living in San Francisco, I didn't own a car and I made use of the public transit in San Francisco.
我很驕傲的事是，我在舊金山住的整個期間，我沒有車，我利用了舊金山的公共交通。
Well, because it served you. It served me. And I don't know, a lot of people complain about it, but I'm just like, you can use public transit in SF the way
因為它對你有用。它對我有用。很多人抱怨，但我就想，你可以在舊金山用公共交通，就像
that you would in New York City. Obviously, it's not as good, but like I'm really proud that I did that and I saved money.
在紐約一樣。顯然沒那麼好，但我很驕傲我做到了，也省了錢。
Sh's personal story time. Cool story, bro. Okay. She's like, I took the bus once. No, I took the bus every single day to work. I know. So did
Sheree 的個人故事時間。好故事，兄弟。好。她說，我坐過一次公車。不，我每天都坐公車上班。我知道。我也是。
I. I took the 22 and the mission was just like a crazy ass line. I think I took a 38R rapid. I think that was what it was
我坐 22 路，Mission 那條線真的很瘋狂。我坐 38R 快線。我覺得就是那條
called when I lived in Pack Heights. an upgrade from my life in Noi Valley.
當我住在 Pac Heights 時。是從 Noe Valley 生活的升級。
She's say it's a joke because both of those are like beautiful really nice places neighborhoods in San Francisco.
她說這是玩笑，因為這兩個都是舊金山很美麗很高級的社區。
And the last section is our advanced section and we're going to just drop some like terminology that you guys should be familiar with. This is obviously for the advanced folks once
最後一部分是我們的進階部分，我們要分享一些你們應該知道的術語。這顯然是給進階人士的，當你
you've figured out your 401k, once you've figured out your budgeting. These are things that Gan and I have done, but they're a bit more complex and we just
搞定了 401k，搞定了預算。這些是 Gan 和我做過的事，但更複雜，我們只是
want you to know about them and you can look into them. Like do a Google search and learn more about them if they apply to you. So, the first thing is a
想讓你們知道，你們可以研究它們。做個 Google 搜尋，如果適用就了解更多。所以，第一個是
backdoor Roth. There's also a mega backdoor Roth. There's also HSA, which is a health savings account. Look these up if you're interested in learning more about them. And then what I want to talk
後門 Roth。還有超級後門 Roth。還有 HSA，健康儲蓄帳戶。如果你有興趣了解更多就查一下。然後我想談
about is the super super advanced stuff. And these are actually things that I myself and Sheree have not done but I recently learned about and I wish I had
的是超超進階的東西。這些其實是我和 Sheree 還沒做過但我最近學到的，我希望我做過的事。
done. So I'm gonna kind of talk through them and then you know you could always look it up more and see if it applies to you. So this is more so for people who
所以我會大概說一下，然後你可以查更多，看看是否適用。這更針對那些
have worked at a company and have received a lot of um RSUs or stocks in that specific company because a lot of companies um especially in tech a lot of
在公司工作並收到很多 RSU 或股票的人，因為很多公司，尤其是科技業，很多
the um compensation is through stock not just you know cash income. Um, and if you are in that case, a lot of times you have a very highly concentrated equity
薪酬是透過股票而不只是現金收入。如果你是這種情況，很多時候你會有高度集中的股權
portfolio where a vast amount of your net worth is in just one share, which is not a good position to be in. And again, diversify. Yeah, diversify. So, I'm
投資組合，你的淨資產大部分都在一支股票上，這不是好的狀態。再說一次，分散投資。是啊，分散投資。所以，我
telling you guys all these things because this is what I freaking wish I had done. Um, and I recently learned them through a friend of mine who is uh
告訴你們這些是因為這是我超希望我做過的事。我最近從一個朋友那裡學到的，他
who leads a private net worth like PWM team at Morgan Stanley. And two of the things to be aware of. The first one is called an exchange fund. The second
在摩根史坦利帶領私人財富管理團隊。要注意兩件事。第一個叫交換基金。第二
thing is called a zerocost collar. So I'll just kind of talk through them at a high level. The first one exchange fund.
個叫零成本領口策略。我大概說一下。第一個，交換基金。
First of all, you need to have a good amount of um equity. It's usually several million. I think sometimes the minimum is around like five million. So
首先，你需要有相當多的股權。通常是幾百萬。我覺得有時最低是 500 萬左右。所以
this is for people who have like a super concentrated portfolio. Actually, it happens a lot more than you think. If like think about all those people at Nvidia, like their net worth is probably
這是給那些有超集中投資組合的人。其實比你想的更常見。想想 Nvidia 的人，他們的淨資產可能
like 90 plus% in that. If you're an engineer at Nvidia, this advice is for you. And if you're an engineer at Nvidia, call me. Call me. That's funny. Um, so the
90% 以上都在那裡。如果你是 Nvidia 的工程師，這個建議是給你的。如果你是 Nvidia 的工程師，打給我。打給我。好笑。所以
idea of an exchange fund is that you pull your shares with other people and then you somehow can buy into this diversified fund using your existing single equity shares and you don't have
交換基金的概念是你和其他人把股份湊在一起，然後你可以用你現有的單一股票買進這個分散的基金，你不需要
to sell your single equity. The thing is you have to keep your money in that fund for a minimum of I think it's usually 7 years and then after that you can
賣掉你的單一股票。事情是你必須把錢在基金裡放至少 7 年，然後之後你可以
actually take the money out. But the benefit of this is you don't need to incur the like taxes of selling the shares that you own in order to diversify. You could like take those
把錢取出。但好處是你不需要承擔賣股票的稅來分散投資。你可以用那些
shares and just like diversify right away. So it's like as if you had invested the same dollar amount of those shares into a diversified portfolio. I understand that because that's kind of
股份直接分散投資。就像你把相同金額的股票投入分散的投資組合。我理解，因為那就是
what I do now anyways is that when I have my stock, I have to sell it and then reinvest it my on my on my own. But
我現在做的事，有股票時，我必須賣掉然後自己重新投資。但
you have to sell it. So, one, you have to pay pay those taxes, and two, if those are short short-term gains, you have to pay like pretty high taxes,
你必須賣掉。所以，一，你要付那些稅，二，如果是短期收益，你要付相當高的稅，
correct? As opposed to like, you know, if you held them for longer for long-term gains. So, this allows you to kind of like circumvent that. So, like I
對吧？相對於，你知道，如果你持有更長時間的長期收益。所以，這讓你可以繞過那個。所以，我
was asking him, I was like, "Is this like a new invention? Like, how come I've never heard of it?" He's like, "No, it's not new." So, learn from my
問他「這是新發明嗎？我怎麼從沒聽過？」他說「不，不是新的。」所以，從我的
mistakes, my friends. My costly costly mistakes. learn from our mistakes. My Nvidia friends who have over $5 million in stock and concentrated stock is more is more common than you think. So, okay.
錯誤中學習，朋友們。我代價高昂的錯誤。從我們的錯誤中學習。我的 Nvidia 朋友們，有超過 500 萬美元集中持股的，比你想的更常見。所以，好。
So, that one has sort of like a cost minimum to it or like a you know a floor of investment. The second method which is called zerocost collars is it sounds
那一個有成本最低限制或投資門檻。第二種方法叫零成本領口策略，聽起來
a little bit complicated but actually most people can do it as a retail investor um as long as you have the ability to buy options um which most
有點複雜，但大多數人作為散戶投資者都可以做，只要你能買期權，而大多數
people do like even in your retail account. The idea behind that is that you buy a put option and you sell a call option. And what that does is it limits
人都可以，即使在你的散戶帳戶。背後的概念是你買一個看跌期權，賣一個看漲期權。這會限制
your downside for your your stock that you have like a lot of uh concentration in, but it also caps your upside. But importantly, it limits your downside.
你持有大量集中股票的下行風險，但也限制了上行空間。但重要的是，它限制了你的下行風險。
And the reason it's called a zerocost collar is that profit that you get from selling the call covers the cost of buying the put. So, this seems like
它叫零成本領口策略的原因是，賣看漲期權的利潤抵消了買看跌期權的成本。所以，這看起來
pretty advanced, like you have to be a bit more in the weeds and know what you're doing, which is why this is in the maybe ultra advanced category. Yeah.
相當進階，你要更深入了解並知道自己在做什麼，這就是為什麼這在超進階類別。是啊。
So, this is really good information for people who are like not afraid of their personal finances, want to take a more involved approach and also that involves Googling and learning more. Or if you
所以，這對那些不害怕個人理財、想採取更積極方法的人來說是很好的資訊，這包括 Google 搜尋和學習更多。或者如果你
have a financial advisor who you can bring this up to and be like, hey, can we do this? Like we always say, information is power, right? These are
有財務顧問，你可以提出來說「嘿，我們能做這個嗎？」我們總是說，資訊就是力量，對吧？這些是
things that I wish I had known so badly like let's say five, six years ago. Um cuz then I would have done a much better job of my own concentrated portfolio situation.
我超希望五六年前就知道的事。因為那樣我會更好地處理我自己的集中投資組合情況。
Um, but you live and you learn and this is the lesson that I have learned that in the future we will apply for whatever situation that we're in and that we can
但你活著你學習，這是我學到的教訓，未來我們會應用到任何情況，也可以
share with you guys. And finally, just to wrap up this episode, reminder, we are not financial adviserss. These are just interesting concepts that some of we've applied to our own lives and some
和你們分享。最後，總結這一集，提醒一下，我們不是財務顧問。這些只是有趣的概念，有些我們應用到自己的生活，有些
that we wish we've applied. I did pass the series 7 and the series, but I have not and I would like to not be sued for this episode. So, okay. Also, mine was
我們希望應用過。我確實通過了 series 7 和 series，但我沒有，而且我不想因為這一集被起訴。所以，好。而且，我的是
like 15 years ago, so it doesn't I'm not qualified anymore. So, we are not financial advisor advisors. Please Google everything to, you know, make your own decisions. This is big sister
大約 15 年前的，所以已經不算數了。我不再有資格。所以，我們不是財務顧問。請 Google 一切，自己做決定。這是大姐
advice for you guys. Big sister advice. Okay. So, the key takeaway from this episode is that you don't need to come from money to build wealth, but you do need knowledge, discipline, and to
給你們的建議。大姐建議。好。所以，這一集的關鍵要點是，你不需要出身富有才能積累財富，但你需要知識、紀律，並
understand the trade-offs. And also just a reminder, money doesn't buy happiness, but it can buy freedom and peace of mind. And so if you are interested in buying Rit Sethy's book, we're going to
理解權衡。還有提醒，錢買不到幸福，但可以買到自由和心靈的平靜。如果你有興趣買 Ramit Sethi 的書，我們會
link it in our Amazon storefront, which is connected. You can find it in the description of this video. And I do want to, you know, give a quick plug,
在我們的 Amazon 店面放連結，它是相連的。你可以在這個影片的說明中找到。我想，你知道，快速宣傳一下，
shameless plug. Gan and I have a matcha brand called Sisters Matcha. And while you're budgeting for your, you know, I can just spend money on things that make
不好意思的宣傳。Gan 和我有一個抹茶品牌叫 Sisters Matcha。當你在做預算，你知道，「我可以花錢在讓
me happy, you can also and healthy and healthy, you can purchase Sisters Matcha, which is available on our website, also energetic and also linked in the description of this video. So,
我開心的東西」，健康的，健康的，你可以買 Sisters Matcha，在我們的網站上有，也有活力的，連結也在這個影片的說明中。所以，
um, thank you guys so much for watching this episode. Hopefully, it was helpful for you. Please remember to like, comment, and subscribe, and share this episode with someone who would also find
非常感謝你們觀看這一集。希望對你有幫助。請記得按讚、留言和訂閱，把這集分享給也會覺得
it helpful. Yes, learn from our mistakes. Love you guys. Bye.
有幫助的人。是的，從我們的錯誤中學習。愛你們。拜拜。
點擊句子跳轉到對應位置
This is personal finance 101 from two Harvard and Stanford graduates. And let's be honest, they didn't teach us this in school. We became self-made millionaires in our 20s. And we're
這是來自兩位哈佛和史丹佛畢業生的個人理財 101。老實說，學校沒有教我們這些。我們在 20 多歲時成為白手起家的百萬富翁。我們要
sharing the tips, tricks, and also mindset that helped get us there. I'm Sheree. I'm Jean. And we're the Tiger Sisters.
分享幫助我們到達那裡的技巧、訣竅，還有心態。我是 Sheree。我是 Jean。我們是 Tiger Sisters。
And so the outline for this episode is that Gan and I are going to share a little bit more about our backgrounds, where we grew up, how we grew up. We
這一集的大綱是 Gan 和我要分享更多關於我們的背景，我們在哪裡長大，我們如何長大。我們
don't come from generational wealth. So everything we learned, we kind of learned the hard way and want to share that with you. And then in this episode, we're also going to give very tactical
不是來自世代財富。所以我們學到的一切，我們都是從艱難中學到的，想要和你分享。然後在這一集中，我們還要給出非常戰術性的
advice and break it down from beginner to intermediate to advanced strategies.
建議，從初級到中級到高級策略來分解。
And we'll get started right after this break. Hey guys, quick break to let you know that we now have merch on sistersmatcha.com. We have sweatshirts and t-shirts that we designed ourselves.
我們會在這個休息後開始。嘿夥計們，快速休息讓你們知道我們現在在 sistersmatcha.com 有週邊商品了。我們有我們自己設計的衛衣和 T 恤。
Go check it out. And please rate us five stars on Spotify and Apple podcasts.
去看看。請在 Spotify 和 Apple podcasts 上給我們五星評價。
These ratings are so important for the distribution and survival of Tiger Sisters podcast. Thank you for your support. And we're back. So, the first section, Gan and I are going to share
這些評價對 Tiger Sisters 播客的分發和生存非常重要。感謝你的支持。我們回來了。所以，第一部分，Gan 和我要分享
more about our backgrounds. And honestly, the biggest contributor to becoming a self-made millionaire in our 20s had to do with our first job out of college. And this goes back to what we
更多關於我們的背景。老實說，在 20 多歲成為白手起家百萬富翁的最大貢獻者與我們大學畢業後的第一份工作有關。這要回到我們
chose to study in school. So, Jean, can you talk a little bit more about how you thought through that? Yeah. So, in college, I basically had the concept
在學校選擇學習的東西。那麼，Jean，你能多談談你是怎麼思考這個的嗎？是的。所以，在大學裡，我基本上有這個概念
that I wanted to work in business or do something in business, but I went to a liberal arts school. So we we didn't have a business major. So the closest
我想在商業領域工作或做一些商業方面的事情，但我去的是一所文理學院。所以我們沒有商業專業。所以最接近的
that I could get was studying economics. So that was kind of like where I decided to focus my energy. And once I was actually in the economics program, what
是學習經濟學。所以這就是我決定集中精力的地方。一旦我真正進入經濟學項目，
I did was I looked to the older students and I kind of looked to see who was sort of being like upheld and acclaimed as being like the most successful seniors
我做的是看向年長的學生，我看看誰被認為是最成功的大四學生
and like what jobs they were getting. And it was like pretty, it became pretty obvious to me that there were just like a few jobs that everyone was like, "Oh
以及他們得到什麼工作。這變得很明顯，有些工作每個人都會說，「哦
my god, like you got you got a job at McKenzie. Like, oh my god, you got um you got into Goldman, you got into Morgan Stanley." And so that was kind of
天哪，你在麥肯錫得到了工作。天哪，你進了高盛，你進了摩根士丹利。」所以那是我第一次
like the first time I even really heard about those companies cuz that's not what we grew up with, right? So once I like heard that enough times and I
真正聽到這些公司因為那不是我們成長的環境，對吧？所以一旦我聽到足夠多次，我
started to ask about it and like learn about what these companies even were, that was kind of how I even formed the goal for myself where I was like, "Okay,
開始問相關問題並了解這些公司是什麼，這就是我如何為自己形成目標的，我說，「好的，
I want to get a job at Goldman Sachs out of school. That's going to be my goal for the next four years of my life." So
我想畢業後在高盛找到一份工作。這將是我接下來四年人生的目標。」所以
then once I sort of had that goal in mind, I worked backwards and then I figured out like, okay, what are all the things that I need to do in order to get
一旦我有了那個目標，我就往回推，然後我弄清楚，好的，我需要做什麼才能
this job out of school? I need to get an internship my junior year at ideally at the company, which didn't happen because it was the great recession, but still it
畢業後得到這份工作？我需要在大三理想情況下在這家公司得到一個實習。這沒有發生因為當時是大衰退，但仍然
was it was a good goal, right? So I was like, okay, I need to get that um internship. then before that I need to do something valuable my sophomore year
這是一個好目標，對吧？所以我說，好的，我需要得到那個實習。然後在那之前我需要在大二做一些有價值的事情
so that I can like ladder up into the internship like all that sort of stuff.
這樣我可以晉升到實習，所有那類事情。
Even if you don't know what you want to do, a lot of it is being curious and asking questions and then also like looking at people around you and people
即使你不知道你想做什麼，很多時候是保持好奇心、問問題，然後也看看你週圍的人和
that you admire and then learning from them and their path and almost trying to copy them. I think it's very legitimate to copy. Yeah, it's really important. I
你欣賞的人，然後向他們和他們的道路學習，幾乎試著模仿他們。我認為模仿是非常合理的。是的，這真的很重要。我
think more than anything else like it's really important to have that mindset where you're curious about others and then you like seek out information. Um you're talking to people, you're
認為你不需要重新發明輪子。如果有些東西有效，你就照著做。
googling things and like having a like once you have the information you can create a plan of like how best to get there. Yeah. And like it's not saying
那你呢 Sheree？你的背景是什麼以及你是如何思考你在學校學習什麼的？
that just because you create the plan it'll automatically be successful, right? Like you could be hit with the greatest recession in co Yeah. in like 20 years or whatever. But as long as you
是的。所以我也去了一所文理學院。我是心理學和經濟學雙主修。
have something an idea of like what you're working for, what you're working towards, you can always pivot. You can always make adjustments. I guess the takeaway here is that like information
我真的很喜歡心理學，但我也知道我想進入商業領域。所以經濟學感覺像是正確的選擇。
is power. Yeah. In the sense that like even when you're in undergrad, you didn't really know what roles out of school would be like highaying or would
我做的和 Jean 類似的是我看向年長的學生。我看到誰得到了很酷的工作，誰做得好。
be very successful or lead you to like wouldn't lead you to long-term career success. But by like talking to more people and seeing what was around you,
對我來說，這是科技。我看到人們去 Google、Facebook，這些科技公司。我說，這就是我想做的。
you can kind of put the pieces together.
所以我把目標設定在畢業後進入科技領域。然後我從那裡往回推。
In that way, I feel like I was very lucky that the opportunities were there, but then I had to do a lot of the leg work to even like understand the
我需要實習。我需要項目。我需要在簡歷上展示一些東西證明我對這個領域感興趣並且有能力。
opportunities and then eventually position myself so that I was um a good candidate. And I think also in today's day and age, the equivalent of what that
我認為這真的很重要。無論你的目標是什麼，你都需要往回推並弄清楚你需要採取什麼步驟才能到達那裡。
would be is just doing a Google search.
完全是。讓我們談談我們畢業後的第一份工作因為這是個重要的部分。
There's like so much more information out there today now like on glass door and also just I don't know like LinkedIn salary you can see what industry and
是的。所以我畢業後進入了華爾街。我的第一份工作是在一家投資銀行。
what roles in each industry like which ones how much money they do they make and how to get there is a different story. You kind of have to piece it
我在那裡工作了兩年。這是非常高強度的。每週 80-100 小時。但它教會了我很多關於金融、建模和如何專業地工作。
together through networking etc. Check out our networking 101 episode here here. But also I guess like information is power. can now know like right out of school what to expect in
也許更重要的是，它讓我在年輕時賺了很多錢。這讓我可以開始投資和儲蓄。
those more corporate jobs. Yeah. And even I think I feel like podcasts such as ours like where we really try to lift the veil and share with everyone like
那就是第一桶金的概念。你想在職業生涯早期盡可能多地賺錢。
what are these jobs actually like? What are the jobs that are out there? I think the information is out there but you do have to do the leg work to find it. So
因為那筆錢有最長的時間複利。如果你在 25 歲投資 1 萬美元並且它每年增長 10%，到 65 歲時它會值很多錢。
Sheree, how about you? How did you think about what major to do in school and like what sort of path you wanted to be on in undergrad as it relates to
但如果你在 35 歲投資同樣的金額，它有更少的時間複利所以它不會增長那麼多。
personal finance and your first job out of school? Yeah. So, college was an interesting time. Um, I guess just on the personal finance aspect, like Gan and I both had student loans of some
這就是為什麼早點開始很重要。你越早開始，你的錢就有越多時間增長。
sort and so that definitely like weighed on my mind of like yes, I want to have a really interesting college experience where I can choose all the like most
完全是。那你呢 Sheree？你的第一份工作是什麼？
amazing classes and just really follow my curiosity purely, but also balancing like the reality of like, oh my god, I definitely need a a job out of school
所以我畢業後進入了科技領域。我在一家科技公司做產品經理。
that will help pay loans that I have and pay the expenses that I have. Gene and I don't have generational wealth or family money to fall back on. So really when we
薪水不像投資銀行那麼高，但也不低。而且它有一些很好的股權。
say we're self-made, it, you know, double underlined there. Um, so I felt really lucky because obviously Jean was like looking around to people who were older than her when she was a college
股權是我在 20 多歲時財富的重要部分。如果你在正確的公司，股權可以值很多錢。
student and I have my older tiger sister Jean and she was the one who put me on computer science. So I originally wanted to be a doctor in college.
是的，股權是一個遊戲規則改變者。這是很多人沒有利用的東西。
I really I was good at bio and I liked helping people. So I'm like why don't I be a doctor and doctors at the time make
他們只看基本薪資，但他們沒有看股權的潛在上漲空間。
a a decent living. But then Gene put me on computer science where then I was like further immersed in those classes in the world of Silicon Valley. Not only
如果你在一家成長中的公司，股權可以讓你比單純薪水富有得多。
learning about like what engineers do but how vast this industry is and also how much this industry can pay in kind of like a crazy entrepreneurial business
完全是。讓我們談談初學者策略。對於剛剛開始理財之旅的人。
way as well. You know, like there's a very steady paycheck of like you can be a doctor and you know, you earn this much in salary, but there was kind of
是的。第一件事是追蹤你的支出。你需要知道你的錢去哪裡了。
like a bit of a gamble at the time when I was a student of like, oh my god, there's so many startups blowing up like this is it could be a like crazy
使用像 Mint 或 YNAB 這樣的應用。它會向你展示你在不同類別花了多少錢。
lucrative lifechanging career. So, I think that was really appealing to me as well. In addition to like I enjoyed my computer science classes, but it would
一旦你知道你的錢去哪裡了，你就可以開始做更好的決定。
be I'd be lying if I said like if I had the chance to like pursue, for example, art history or a more like liberal arts degree that might not be as easy to get
是的。第二件事是建立一個緊急基金。這應該是 3-6 個月的開支。
a job out of school. Like that could have also been a path that I went on, but I definitely knew that I couldn't given that like I don't it might I might
這是一個安全網。如果發生了什麼事，比如你失業了或有意外支出，你有錢可以依靠。
not see success there, but I could see more success doing engineering and having more guaranteed guaranteed. It's never guaranteed, but like Yeah, you financial success. Yes, financial
把它放在高利息儲蓄帳戶裡。不要投資它。這是應該隨時可用的錢。
success. Be clear. Um cuz there's a lot of different ways you can define success. I meant financial success given the loans and the bills. Yeah. And so like the context from my perspective is
完全是。第三件事是利用你僱主的 401k 匹配。
that it kind of worked out since we're seven years apart that by the time I had wrapped up two years at Goldman, my first job out of school, I was kind of
如果你的僱主提供匹配，你應該至少貢獻足夠得到完整匹配。這是免費的錢。
looking to decide what I wanted to do next and I wanted to work in tech. And by that time I kind of figured out, okay, the role that I want to do is
不要把免費的錢留在桌上。這是你能得到的最簡單的投資回報。
product manager. And having done all of this like research and having all these conversations, I really found out that it's at the time it was very very hard
是的。這些是基礎。追蹤你的支出，建立緊急基金，並利用你的 401k 匹配。
to break into a product manager role if you didn't have a um technical background, meaning if you didn't study computer science in an undergrad and have a computer science degree. So I
讓我們進入中級策略。這是給已經掌握基礎並準備提升的人。
kind of like I don't know. I feel like I I got lucky and I was able to like leverage the skills that I have and the network that I have to get a product
是的。第一件事是為退休和經紀帳戶最大化你的投資。
management job um without a computer science degree. But that was when I told Sheree because you started undergrad in 2013.
為你的 401k 貢獻最大額。開一個 IRA。開一個應稅經紀帳戶。
That was why I told her I was like you need to study computer science because it's going to set you up and have it's going to set you up so that you have the
你投資越多，你的錢增長越多。在投資中有複利效應。
most options out of undergrad. I think that's the best way to put it is that like it just gives you more freedom, you know, it gives you more financial
是的。第二件事是多元化你的投資組合。不要把所有雞蛋放在一個籃子裡。
freedom if you study something that like you know where you will I don't know what am I trying to say where you know that should you want to take it there is
投資股票、債券、房地產。在不同行業和地區分散你的投資。
a there are lucrative opportunities right out of undergrad. Yes. And like also I'm not saying I don't know if the exact same advice is true today because
多元化降低風險。如果一項投資表現不好，其他可能表現好。
you know in the year of our Lord 2025 I don't know if a computer science degree is as valuable as it was for GBT be replacing engineers these days. Yeah. So
完全是。第三件事是了解稅務策略。理解長期與短期資本利得之間的差異。
I don't know if it's like exactly like word for word like you should get a computer science degree so that you can it's more the mindset. It's more the
長期資本利得稅率更低。所以如果你能持有投資超過一年，你會支付更少的稅。
mindset. It's more like try to talk to people and figure out and understand like what is the best way for me to position myself for my goals right out
考慮利用稅收優惠帳戶如 Roth IRA 以獲得免稅增長。
of school. And if your goal is to um maximize your earning potential right out of school, then you know follow that path. Yeah. And honestly, maximizing your earning potential right out of
是的。稅務策略可以對你的長期財富產生很大影響。這不僅僅是你賺多少，而是你保留多少。
school, the reason why we're talking about it is it just gives you more freedom to then choose what you want to do. I think a lot of people ask me like
讓我們進入高級策略。這是給已經積累了一些財富並想把它提升到下一個水平的人。
right now like how are you able to have a podcast as a full-time job and have this startup as a full-time job. It's because of the decisions that I made
是的。第一件事是考慮房地產投資。房地產可以是建立財富的好方法。
that were informed by Jean back when I was 19 years old that lead me to where I am at 29. Yeah. Well, as a full-time job bootstrapped without having raised
你可以購買出租物業來獲得被動收入。你也可以投資 REITs 而不必自己管理物業。
money. Like we haven't raised any venture capital or like any sort of angel funding or anything like that. We support and pay for everything on our own. Yeah. So, I think like that's kind
房地產也提供稅務優勢如折舊。這可以減少你的應稅收入。
of what I'm harping at and I hope it's not taken the wrong way, but like we're genuinely like sharing our advice so that like if this is what you want to do
是的。第二件事是探索另類投資。這包括私募股權、風險投資、天使投資。
as well, maybe you can develop um a path to that as well. Yeah. And I think even just like being conscientious of it and like thinking about is that something I
這些投資可以提供比傳統股票和債券更高的回報。但它們也有更高的風險。
want to optimize for? Like do I care? Or maybe the answer is no. Like I actually don't care to to do that. like I'm not stressed about student loans or I don't
只有用你可以承受損失的錢投資這些。
have student loans and like I actually want to take the time out of undergrad to explore and like try a lot of different paths then that's great but
完全是。第三件事是建立多個收入來源。不要只依賴一份工作的收入。
this is just like more security for the insecure way that I think but I will say you know what here's another me revealing and being vulnerable another insecure way I know people who have
考慮副業、自由職業、被動收入來源。你擁有的收入來源越多，你的財務就越安全。
studied art history or have studied political science more like liberal artsy uh majors in college and then started working at McKenzie or started working in investment banks like they
是的。這是一個抗衰退的策略。如果你失去了一個收入來源，你有其他的可以依靠。
were able to do that as well. I know like I just don't think I'm that smart that I'm able to do that quite honestly like or it's not all about smarts but
讓我們談談心態因為這是財務成功的重要組成部分。
sometimes it's about access it maybe well I just know that like I was not in a position to do that which is why I needed more of like a bulletproof
是的。第一個心態是像投資者一樣思考。不要只是為了錢而工作。讓錢為你工作。
foolproof plan that I was like I'm going to be an engineer at the time people were hiring for engineering and in tech as product managers this is what I know
每當你賺錢時，想想你如何投資它讓它增長。
is going to be a bit more certain and so that's why I chose that path. Yeah, you were doing everything you could to maximize your chances. Exactly. So now
第二個心態是長期思考。不要被短期波動所左右。
you guys know that's some of the background of how we even thought about like what to study and how to land our first job out of school to set us up on
市場會上漲下跌。但在長期來看，它們傾向於上漲。保持投資並保持耐心。
this path. So that you know the next things that we're going to be talking about in terms of like beginner, intermediate, and advanced tactics are kind of based off of like having
是的。第三個心態是不斷學習。金融世界總是在變化。
expendable income and also having a mindset of like how do we guarantee savings, guarantee a more like stressfree financial life over the next decade. Okay. So Sheree, let's say
閱讀書籍，聽播客，向成功的人學習。你學得越多，你會做出越好的決定。
you're at the point now where you've actually gotten the first job out of school. What are some of the things that you should look out for or definitely
完全是。最後一個想法。不要等待。今天就開始。
do? Mhm. So, the first thing we're going to talk about, and this is like the very beginner um recommendation for us, is basically it's free money. Free money is
你開始越早，你的錢就有越多時間增長。你未來的自己會感謝你的。
401ks. If you have a job out of school, especially at a big company, they often have 401k matching. And basically, this is money that you're putting away for
是的。如果你喜歡這一集，請訂閱 Tiger Sisters 播客。
your retirement. you put it away now um you know when you're not retired when you're working so you can take the money out for when you are retired when you're
在 Spotify 和 Apple Podcasts 上給我們五星評價。這對我們的分發真的很有幫助。
you know 62 to 65 or possibly older there's different time periods you can take it out but basically I think people don't take advantage of this enough because they're not thinking about the
分享就是關愛。感謝收聽。我們下次見。
future in a way that is accessible you're like oh okay 65year-old me you're like I don't think about that now you know I'm 21 22 years old now like why am
拜拜。
I saving for the future but I say that this is free money because many big companies have matching programs. So what this means is that you know you go
我為未來存錢，但我說這是免費的錢，因為很多大公司有配對計劃。意思是你進入
inside the portal, you have to set it up so that when your paycheck comes every 2 weeks, it automatically takes a portion of that out and it puts it into your
入口網站，你必須設定好，這樣每兩週發薪水時，它會自動提撥一部分到你的
401k. So you're basically automatically taking it out and you have some money put into your retirement. That amount of money, some companies do really great matching. They're like, "Whatever money
401k。所以你基本上是自動提撥，你有一些錢放進退休金。那筆錢，有些公司的配對很好。他們說：「你放多少
you put in, we'll put in the same amount." That's what I had at my company, which was fantastic. And that's why it's usually referred to as like free money with these matching programs.
我們就放多少。」這是我公司的做法，非常棒。這就是為什麼這些配對計劃通常被稱為免費的錢。
Yeah. Up to like a certain percentage. Usually like up to 3% or something like that. Exactly. Some other programs that they have like will match up to, you
是啊。最高到某個百分比。通常是 3% 左右。沒錯。有些其他計劃會配對到
know, some sort x%. So you guys just have to do some research to figure out what your program is if you work at a big company. But I would say so many
你知道的，某個百分比。所以如果你在大公司工作，你們要做些研究弄清楚你們的計劃是什麼。但我會說很多
people miss out on this because they they don't think about retirement and they don't think about the future because it is, you know, I don't know 40
人錯過這個機會，因為他們不考慮退休，不考慮未來，因為那是，你知道，大概 40
years away. And then just to sort of set the basic context, the reason why you would even want to contribute to the 401k program through your company is
年後。然後簡單說一下基本背景，你想透過公司參加 401k 計劃的原因是
because the money that you put into the 401k is contributed pre-tax. So, let's say you put in, you know, $100,000 over the course of however many years.
因為你放進 401k 的錢是稅前提撥的。所以，假設你放進了，你知道，不管多少年放了 10 萬美元。
Instead of if you receive that money as your income, usually you would have to pay like say $30,000 in taxes. But if you had put all of that into your 401k,
如果你把那筆錢當作收入，通常你要付大約 3 萬美元的稅。但如果你把所有錢放進 401k，
then all of that 100,000 goes straight into the investments and it sort of grows and then you only get taxed when you actually take the money out postretirement. And the thinking is that
那所有 10 萬美元直接進入投資，然後它會增長，你只在退休後實際提領時才被課稅。這個想法是
after you've retired, you aren't really making money. so that you pay a lower tax rate in the future. Correct. And you've had time for all of those investments to compound and you've
退休後，你不再賺錢，所以未來付較低的稅率。沒錯。而且你有時間讓所有投資複利增長，你
invested more money than you would have were it not in a 401k. That's a really really good explanation. Oh, thank you.
投資的錢比不在 401k 裡多。這是非常非常好的解釋。喔，謝謝。
That it was super clear and I think I would double underline the word compound. Yeah. So the power of compounding. It's amazing to talk about retirement funds because that is 40
超級清楚，我會在「複利」這個詞下面畫雙底線。是啊。所以複利的力量。談退休基金很驚人，因為那是 40
years in the future and my brain can't even comprehend the power of compounding over time, but think about like your money over 40 years literally in investments. Like you just leave it in
年後的事，我的大腦無法理解複利隨時間的力量，但想想你的錢在投資裡 40 年。你就把它放在
there and ostensibly like you know your investments will grow year over year how however many Yeah. What is it the 10% or whatever? Yeah. Is the average. I've never really thought about it that
那裡，表面上你的投資每年都會增長，不管多少。是啊。是 10% 還是什麼？是啊。是平均。老實說我從沒仔細想過，
closely to be honest, but it is actually really helpful that you're kind of like putting in 30% more money that can then compound over time. Mhm. That's cool.
但多放 30% 的錢然後複利增長確實很有幫助。嗯。很酷。
Yeah, you don't really have to manage it either. So, the reason why this is in the beginner section is that basically all you need to do if you haven't
是啊，你也不需要管理它。所以這在初學者部分的原因是，基本上如果你還沒
already um if you want, this is not financial advice. You you guys can do whatever you want. I guess what we did what we did and we are pleased about
做過，如果你想的話，這不是財務建議。你們可以做任何想做的。我猜我們做了什麼，我們對此很滿意
is that just start putting money into your 401k through your work. Just configure it once and then it'll be taken out of your paycheck automatically. You don't have to think
就是開始透過工作把錢放進 401k。只要設定一次，它就會自動從薪水中扣除。你不需要
about it. Yeah. Well, what percentage contribution did you put? So, uh I actually don't remember what percentage contribution I did, but the way I don't remember either, but it doesn't matter.
想它。是啊。你提撥了多少百分比？我其實不記得我提撥了多少百分比，但我也不記得，但沒關係。
The way that I thought about it was that I maxed it out every single year. I maxed it out so that I would do You maxed out the match. I maxed out the
我的想法是每年都把它拉滿。我拉滿了讓我能——你拉滿了配對。我拉滿了
match contribution. Yeah. Um for my 401k, which uh I think ended up maxing out like however much money you can contribute to your 401k. And it doesn't
配對提撥。是啊。對我的 401k，最後拉滿了你能提撥到 401k 的最高金額。而且不
matter if you do that if you choose to have the most amount of money taken out of your paycheck for a short amount of time or you kind of drip it over time.
管你是選擇短時間內從薪水中扣最多錢，還是慢慢分次扣。
It really depends on your lifestyle, your needs, and your need for liquidity in your life. If it's taken out even before you get your paycheck, then you
真的取決於你的生活方式、需求和對流動性的需要。如果在你拿到薪水前就扣掉了，那你
kind of don't miss it because you don't realize that it was even there. I think I had an ex-boyfriend um who worked at the same company as me and we talked
根本不會想念它，因為你不會意識到它的存在。我有個前男友在同一家公司，我們談過
about this about personal finance and his strategy was to max out the contribution over a short period of time such that his like salary his take-home salary was like $1,000 a month. He's
這個個人理財的話題，他的策略是在短時間內把提撥拉滿，這樣他的實領薪水只有每月 1000 美元。他
just like, "Let me just get it over with, you know?" Okay. Um how did he pay for his like he had like he had like savings and other stuff otherwise to use
就是「讓我趕快弄完，你知道嗎？」好。他怎麼付生活費？他有儲蓄和其他東西可以用，
from, but he's just like let me just do this, you know? It was just I don't that was his strategy where I dripped it out over time. He wanted the max pain. He
但他就是「讓我這樣做，你知道嗎？」這是他的策略，而我是分次慢慢扣。他想要最大的痛苦。他
wanted He wanted the max pain. I don't know. But that just sucks to see your paycheck is like $700. Like I don't know. I wouldn't want that. Yeah. Okay.
想要最大的痛苦。我不知道。但看到薪水只有 700 美元真的很糟。我不想那樣。是啊。好。
And next we'll be talking about the intermediate section of this podcast and the most impactful book that we read that changed our financial thinking forever. And Jean actually put me on
接下來我們要談這集 podcast 的中級部分，以及永遠改變我們財務思維的最有影響力的書。Jean 推薦給我的
this book. Thank you. It is remit Seth's book called I will teach you to be rich which is a very catchy catchy title actually. Should we make that the title
這本書。謝謝。是 Ramit Sethi 的書，叫《我會教你變有錢》，標題非常吸引人。我們要不要把它作為
of our podcast? Sure. of our podcast episode. I mean it's funny because the the the title is very catchy. It's not really about teaching you how to be
我們的 podcast 標題？當然。我們這集的標題。我是說很好笑，因為標題很吸引人。但它其實不是教你如何
rich. It's more about teaching you to have like a very healthy um healthy habits to then I guess eventually be rich through compounding and making money of your own that you then allocate
變有錢。更多是教你養成非常健康的習慣，然後透過複利和賺自己的錢，正確配置後，最終變有錢。
correctly. Honestly, that book changed my life. like I don't know who told me to read that book but or how I discovered it but I read it and there
老實說，那本書改變了我的人生。我不知道是誰叫我讀那本書或我怎麼發現它的，但我讀了，書裡有
are things that I implemented that you know this was like 15 years ago that are still my go-to standard today like for example the okay the good thing about
一些我實施的東西，你知道這是大約 15 年前的事，到今天仍然是我的標準做法。比如——好，那本書的優點
the book and obviously we encourage you guys to read it is that it had very directive specific things to do so one of the things that I remember it said
是，我們鼓勵你們讀，它有非常明確具體的事情要做。我記得它說的一件事是
open a Charles Schwab checking account because one you can do it online just you know you don't have to go in person and then two the ATM card that you get
開一個 Charles Schwab 支票帳戶，因為一可以線上開戶，不用親自去，二你拿到的 ATM 卡
gives you refunds for any ATM fees. It was very tactical. Yes.
可以退還任何 ATM 手續費。非常具體實用。是的。
Like very random tidbits. Yeah. And it was like open a Vanguard fund specifically like put your money in like this type of fund in Vanguard. I love that. Well, I think it's also really
像是非常隨機的小技巧。是啊。它還說專門開一個 Vanguard 基金，把錢放進 Vanguard 的這種基金。我很喜歡。我覺得也很
important that like these little actions compound over time. Like we're going to keep talking about the power of compounding, but also like to be rich and to be wealth and to be self-made
重要的是這些小行動會隨時間複利。我們會繼續談複利的力量，但要變有錢、有財富、白手起家成為
millionaires. Like there is no silver bullet. Maybe I should have said this in the beginning, but there is no silver bullet where like we got rich overnight.
百萬富翁。沒有銀彈。也許我應該在開頭說，但沒有銀彈讓我們一夜致富。
Like everything we do is building and acrewing wealth over a long period of time.
我們做的每件事都是在長期內積累財富。
Wealth. And I think it's also just like feeling like you kind of like did the right thing and feeling like you have like a strong foundation. Yeah. Like I
財富。我覺得也是感覺自己做對了事，感覺有堅實的基礎。是啊。我
feel like that book really helped provide some just really key steps when like after graduation I was like what do I do? What do I do? I have no idea.
覺得那本書真的提供了一些關鍵步驟，畢業後我完全不知道該怎麼辦。我該怎麼辦？我完全不知道。
Yeah. Um so thank you. Thank you Sephi.
是啊。所以謝謝。謝謝 Sethi。
Um also I think the biggest takeaway from from that book for me was the section on budgeting. Okay. And we'll go through a breakdown of like how to think
另外我覺得那本書對我最大的收穫是關於預算的部分。好。我們會講一個如何思考
about budgeting. But I want to start first about talking about the mindset of budgeting. For me, when I was a new grad, I was just like paralyzed for
預算的分解。但我想先談談預算的心態。對我來說，剛畢業時，我好幾個月都
months. And I actually talked about this in therapy because I didn't have a good relationship with money. I was like scared to spend money because I didn't
癱瘓了。我其實在心理諮詢中談過這個，因為我和金錢的關係不好。我害怕花錢，因為我不
know how much money I was spending and how much I could spend, which it was really useful. So, like I kind of lived a life out of fear where I'd be like,
知道我花了多少錢，我可以花多少，這真的很有用。所以我活在恐懼中，我會想
"Oh, I don't want to go to that event cuz I guess I'll have to Uber, but like the Uber's like $30. Can I afford that right now?" You know what I mean? Like
「喔，我不想去那個活動，因為我得叫 Uber，但 Uber 要 30 美元。我現在付得起嗎？」你懂我意思嗎？
it like sent me into a spiral. But you made like so much money out of undergrad. Exactly. Like that was the bad part. I just like didn't know where
它讓我陷入焦慮。但你畢業就賺很多錢。沒錯。那就是糟糕的地方。我就是不知道
the limit was cuz I didn't do some calcul like initial calculations. It like came at me all at once cuz in undergrad I had this mindset where like
上限在哪裡，因為我沒做一些初始計算。一下子全部湧來，因為在大學我有這種心態
I had you didn't have money. I didn't have money and I was like, "Oh my god, can I spend that money on a sweet green salad?" Oh, wait. You know what I mean?
我——你沒有錢。我沒有錢，我會想「天啊，我能花那筆錢買 Sweet Green 沙拉嗎？」喔等等。你懂我意思嗎？
Or like should I go to the dining hall?
或者我應該去學校餐廳？
Like kind of like that mindset which carried over, but it didn't make sense now that I did make money, right? It was an outdated mindset. Exactly. It was like scarcity in college, which didn't
那種心態延續下來，但現在我賺錢了就沒道理了，對吧？這是過時的心態。沒錯。在大學是匱乏心態，
need to be I didn't need to have that mindset after school. So, I think the thing that was really important was to then be like, "This is how much I'm
畢業後不需要有那種心態。所以，我覺得真正重要的是「這是我花的錢。
spending. This is how much I can spend.
這是我可以花的錢。
This is how much should go into savings.
這是應該存的錢。
How much should go into 401k?" My mindset when it came to like budgeting out of school is that I didn't really do it and I think I was also like avoidant
401k 應該放多少？」我對預算的心態是，畢業後我其實沒做，我覺得我對金錢也是逃避
about money aside from like these few things that room Sethi said to do in the book. So I like did those things and then other than that I was kind of like
的，除了 Ramit Sethi 書裡說的那幾件事。所以我做了那些事，除此之外我有點
avoidant like I didn't want to think about money but luckily I had done the step where I kind of tried to optimize for a job that was lucrative out of
逃避，不想考慮金錢，但幸運的是我做了一步，就是畢業時優先選擇高薪工作。
school. So like I definitely had enough money to like cover all my expenses and more, but I just never like thought about that. So I never budgeted. I never
所以我絕對有足夠的錢支付所有開銷還有剩，但我從沒想過。所以我從沒做預算。我從沒
was like, can I afford this? Can I afford that? But I was pretty frugal cuz like similar to you, I was And also pretty much all I did was work and like
想「我付得起這個嗎？付得起那個嗎？」但我很節儉，因為和你一樣，我——而且基本上我只做的就是工作和
occasionally go out to dinner. But you also had many dinners covered by work too. Yes. So like you didn't have to like think about that. Yeah. And like
偶爾出去吃飯。但你很多晚餐也是公司付的。是的。所以你不用想那個。是啊。而且
the gym was at work. I think we paid like a nominal free fee every month for it. Like I just didn't really have that many expense. You you don't have that
健身房在公司。我們好像每月付很少的費用。我就是沒什麼開銷。當你每週工作 90 小時時就是沒什麼
many expenses when you work 90 hours a week. Like that's just and and like you're not really traveling anywhere because you're working on the weekends too, right? You know, so you didn't have
開銷。就是這樣，而且你沒有到處旅行，因為週末也在工作，對吧？你知道，所以你沒有
the freedom of leisure time. Yeah. To even spend your money. Have time to even spend money. Um, and then like occasionally, I don't know, like we
休閒時間的自由。是啊。甚至沒有時間花錢。連花錢的時間都沒有。然後偶爾，我不知道，我們
would go out to clubs, but like I was a girl, so then like this was 15 years ago, but so like you know, someone would have a table and then you'd just be like
會去夜店，但我是女生，而且這是 15 年前的事，所以你知道，有人會有卡座，你就
at your friend's table and like I I wasn't spending that much money to be honest. Um, so I didn't really think about it. So it suited my money avoidant
在朋友的桌子旁，老實說我沒花那麼多錢。所以我沒真的想過。這適合我當時逃避金錢的
mindset at the time. I was avoidant, too. Avoidant is such a good word here.
心態。我也是逃避的。逃避是個很好的詞。
Like I just didn't want to know cuz I was just scared to know that if I was spending a lot of money, I was like scared I would get in trouble with
我就是不想知道，因為我害怕知道如果我花了很多錢，我會被
myself. So I just like So I just avoided it for maybe like five months, but it kind of like drove me crazy cuz I was just like, "Oh." Oh, you never talked to
自己罵。所以我就逃避了大概五個月，但這讓我快瘋了，因為我就是「喔」。喔，你從沒跟
me about it. Yeah. I talked to my therapist about it. Oh, why didn't you ask me? Cuz I was afraid I was going to get yelled at by me? Yeah. For what?
我說過。是啊。我跟心理師說的。喔，你為什麼不問我？因為我怕被你罵？是啊。為什麼？
Reprimanded for not budgeting. Oh, so this is the breakdown. Um, this is a guideline. Obviously, the numbers are a bit squishy and you can make it your own, but basically this is what the
因為沒做預算被訓斥。喔，這是分解。這是指南。顯然數字有點彈性，你可以調整，但基本上這是
the budget breakdown is. 50% goes into fixed cost. This is like how much you're spending every month on like rent and food, your car payment, things you need
預算分解。50% 用於固定成本。這是像你每月花在房租、食物、車貸、生活必需品上的錢。
to live. So, you know, after you have your take-home salary, 40 50% can go to your fixed costs. And also, you know, these are fixed costs like utilities, student loans, these are generally
所以，你知道，拿到實領薪水後，50% 可以用於固定成本。還有，你知道，這些固定成本像水電費、學貸，通常是
things you can't really change. I mean, you can get cheaper housing. Gan and I always optimize for cheap cheap housing.
你沒辦法改變的東西。我是說，你可以找更便宜的住房。Gan 和我總是優先找便宜住房。
Um, so, you know, take a look at where where things can flex. 10% should go into your investments. This is like your 401k or your index funds. Usually 5 to
所以，你知道，看看哪裡可以調整。10% 應該用於投資。這是像你的 401k 或指數基金。通常 5 到
10% can go into savings. This is if you want to travel or you have an emergency fund or if you're saving for, you know, a wedding or a big thing in the future
10% 可以用於儲蓄。這是如果你想旅行或有緊急基金，或者為未來的婚禮或大事存錢。
that's coming up. And the last category, this is what remmit Sethie talks about and what I really took away is guilt-free spending. Like I spent with so much guilt because I just like didn't
最後一個類別，這是 Ramit Sethi 說的，也是我真正學到的，就是無罪惡感消費。我花錢時充滿罪惡感，因為我
know how much I was spending and if I was going over. But this is around 20 to 25%. This is like you can spend on going to the spa, getting your matcha, getting
不知道我花了多少錢，有沒有超支。但這大約是 20 到 25%。這是像你可以花在做 spa、買抹茶、做
your nails done without feeling bad cuz you know it's all within this bucket of like this is spending for fun and for leisure that I can just use up. I think
指甲而不覺得愧疚，因為你知道這都在這個桶裡，這是用於娛樂和休閒的消費。我覺得
probably I was a little hyperbolic in saying that I like never budget in my life. I think what I probably I think what I did at the time is I like looked
我說我從沒做過預算可能有點誇張。我覺得當時我可能是看了
at these guidelines and I like assessed my own personal situation like once or twice and I was like okay I'm doing fine within these guidelines and then I kind
這些指南，一兩次評估了我自己的情況，然後想「好，我在這些指南內做得不錯」，然後我就
of just never thought about it again and I was like okay I'm making enough money so that my natural um inclinations and how I naturally spend money is not
再也沒想過，我想「好，我賺夠多錢，我的自然傾向和消費方式沒有
exceeding these guidelines. So, like I'm good. And then I just never really thought about it. But to be honest, I could have been much more nice and to myself and like permissive in my
超過這些指南。」所以我沒問題。然後我就再也沒想過。但老實說，我本可以對自己更好一點，在消費上更寬容，
spending because I love shopping. I love fashion and I like love spending on clothes. And I think I could have had I had the time just done more shopping and
因為我喜歡購物。我喜歡時尚，喜歡買衣服。如果有時間，我本可以多購物
just like enjoyed myself more. I could have enjoyed life a bit more out of school. Yeah. Like one of my friends bought a couch. This is maybe when I was
多享受自己。畢業後我本可以多享受生活。是啊。像我一個朋友買了沙發。這可能是我
like 23, 24 and still kind of in that scarcity mindset. I, you know, and then he bought a couch and he's like, "Yeah, it was like 2500." I was like, "Huh?"
23、24 歲，還在那種匱乏心態時。我，你知道，然後他買了沙發，他說「是啊，2500 美元。」我說「什麼？」
Like, "You paid 22 over $2,000 for a couch?" I was like, "Not everyone gets their couch from Facebook Marketplace." Like, didn't you have a couch? Yeah.
「你花了超過 2000 美元買沙發？」我想「不是每個人都從 Facebook Marketplace 買沙發。」你不是有沙發嗎？是啊。
From Facebook Marketplace that like we, you know, paid $80 for. $80? You know what I mean? It was like a used couch. I guess that's a that's a great deal though. Did you like
從 Facebook Marketplace 買的，我們花了 80 美元。80 美元？你懂我意思嗎？是二手沙發。我猜那算很劃算。你
the couch? No, it was smelly and uncomfortable. Ew. And so, you know, but then but the thing is your roommates also were in the same mindset as you,
喜歡那沙發嗎？不，又臭又不舒服。噁。所以，你知道，但你的室友也和你有同樣的心態，
even though they were doing the same thing just as well. We were just so they were in the same same scarcity mindset.
即使他們做得一樣好。我們就是——他們也有同樣的匱乏心態。
We were we were in the same boat. We've had the same experiences. It was kind of crazy that like I could have had nicer things. I mean, you know, looking back
我們同舟共濟。有過相同的經歷。挺瘋狂的，我本可以擁有更好的東西。我是說，你知道，回顧
on it now or just enjoyed a bit more, but obviously we are where we are. It's just so funny because your roommates at the time worked in investment banking in
現在，或者多享受一點，但顯然我們走到了這裡。很好笑，因為你當時的室友在投資銀行和
Facebook, right? And in tech, and we got like a stinky couch and we got like tables and stuff from Facebook marketplaces for $10. Like our TV stand
Facebook 工作，對吧？還有科技業，我們卻買了臭沙發，還從 Facebook Marketplace 花 10 美元買桌子什麼的。我們的電視架
was an IKEA table that was messed up. It was like scratched all over for $10. I guess those things weren't that important to you guys at the time. It
是一張壞掉的 IKEA 桌子。到處都是颳痕，10 美元。我猜那些東西當時對你們不重要。
wasn't, but I was just like, I guess we didn't need to do that given how much we were spending. But it was our first place out of school. Like it's not I
不重要，但我就想，鑒於我們花了多少，我猜不需要這樣做。但這是畢業後第一個住處。我
guess it's not meant to be nice, but now I'm just like what the hell? Like I mean that's that's fine. I don't see like nothing matched. I guess another thing
猜不一定要漂亮，但現在我就想什麼鬼？我是說沒關係。什麼都不搭。我猜另一件
was that like something that I'm very proud of is that all my time living in San Francisco, I didn't own a car and I made use of the public transit in San Francisco.
我很驕傲的事是，我在舊金山住的整個期間，我沒有車，我利用了舊金山的公共交通。
Well, because it served you. It served me. And I don't know, a lot of people complain about it, but I'm just like, you can use public transit in SF the way
因為它對你有用。它對我有用。很多人抱怨，但我就想，你可以在舊金山用公共交通，就像
that you would in New York City. Obviously, it's not as good, but like I'm really proud that I did that and I saved money.
在紐約一樣。顯然沒那麼好，但我很驕傲我做到了，也省了錢。
Sh's personal story time. Cool story, bro. Okay. She's like, I took the bus once. No, I took the bus every single day to work. I know. So did
Sheree 的個人故事時間。好故事，兄弟。好。她說，我坐過一次公車。不，我每天都坐公車上班。我知道。我也是。
I. I took the 22 and the mission was just like a crazy ass line. I think I took a 38R rapid. I think that was what it was
我坐 22 路，Mission 那條線真的很瘋狂。我坐 38R 快線。我覺得就是那條
called when I lived in Pack Heights. an upgrade from my life in Noi Valley.
當我住在 Pac Heights 時。是從 Noe Valley 生活的升級。
She's say it's a joke because both of those are like beautiful really nice places neighborhoods in San Francisco.
她說這是玩笑，因為這兩個都是舊金山很美麗很高級的社區。
And the last section is our advanced section and we're going to just drop some like terminology that you guys should be familiar with. This is obviously for the advanced folks once
最後一部分是我們的進階部分，我們要分享一些你們應該知道的術語。這顯然是給進階人士的，當你
you've figured out your 401k, once you've figured out your budgeting. These are things that Gan and I have done, but they're a bit more complex and we just
搞定了 401k，搞定了預算。這些是 Gan 和我做過的事，但更複雜，我們只是
want you to know about them and you can look into them. Like do a Google search and learn more about them if they apply to you. So, the first thing is a
想讓你們知道，你們可以研究它們。做個 Google 搜尋，如果適用就了解更多。所以，第一個是
backdoor Roth. There's also a mega backdoor Roth. There's also HSA, which is a health savings account. Look these up if you're interested in learning more about them. And then what I want to talk
後門 Roth。還有超級後門 Roth。還有 HSA，健康儲蓄帳戶。如果你有興趣了解更多就查一下。然後我想談
about is the super super advanced stuff. And these are actually things that I myself and Sheree have not done but I recently learned about and I wish I had
的是超超進階的東西。這些其實是我和 Sheree 還沒做過但我最近學到的，我希望我做過的事。
done. So I'm gonna kind of talk through them and then you know you could always look it up more and see if it applies to you. So this is more so for people who
所以我會大概說一下，然後你可以查更多，看看是否適用。這更針對那些
have worked at a company and have received a lot of um RSUs or stocks in that specific company because a lot of companies um especially in tech a lot of
在公司工作並收到很多 RSU 或股票的人，因為很多公司，尤其是科技業，很多
the um compensation is through stock not just you know cash income. Um, and if you are in that case, a lot of times you have a very highly concentrated equity
薪酬是透過股票而不只是現金收入。如果你是這種情況，很多時候你會有高度集中的股權
portfolio where a vast amount of your net worth is in just one share, which is not a good position to be in. And again, diversify. Yeah, diversify. So, I'm
投資組合，你的淨資產大部分都在一支股票上，這不是好的狀態。再說一次，分散投資。是啊，分散投資。所以，我
telling you guys all these things because this is what I freaking wish I had done. Um, and I recently learned them through a friend of mine who is uh
告訴你們這些是因為這是我超希望我做過的事。我最近從一個朋友那裡學到的，他
who leads a private net worth like PWM team at Morgan Stanley. And two of the things to be aware of. The first one is called an exchange fund. The second
在摩根史坦利帶領私人財富管理團隊。要注意兩件事。第一個叫交換基金。第二
thing is called a zerocost collar. So I'll just kind of talk through them at a high level. The first one exchange fund.
個叫零成本領口策略。我大概說一下。第一個，交換基金。
First of all, you need to have a good amount of um equity. It's usually several million. I think sometimes the minimum is around like five million. So
首先，你需要有相當多的股權。通常是幾百萬。我覺得有時最低是 500 萬左右。所以
this is for people who have like a super concentrated portfolio. Actually, it happens a lot more than you think. If like think about all those people at Nvidia, like their net worth is probably
這是給那些有超集中投資組合的人。其實比你想的更常見。想想 Nvidia 的人，他們的淨資產可能
like 90 plus% in that. If you're an engineer at Nvidia, this advice is for you. And if you're an engineer at Nvidia, call me. Call me. That's funny. Um, so the
90% 以上都在那裡。如果你是 Nvidia 的工程師，這個建議是給你的。如果你是 Nvidia 的工程師，打給我。打給我。好笑。所以
idea of an exchange fund is that you pull your shares with other people and then you somehow can buy into this diversified fund using your existing single equity shares and you don't have
交換基金的概念是你和其他人把股份湊在一起，然後你可以用你現有的單一股票買進這個分散的基金，你不需要
to sell your single equity. The thing is you have to keep your money in that fund for a minimum of I think it's usually 7 years and then after that you can
賣掉你的單一股票。事情是你必須把錢在基金裡放至少 7 年，然後之後你可以
actually take the money out. But the benefit of this is you don't need to incur the like taxes of selling the shares that you own in order to diversify. You could like take those
把錢取出。但好處是你不需要承擔賣股票的稅來分散投資。你可以用那些
shares and just like diversify right away. So it's like as if you had invested the same dollar amount of those shares into a diversified portfolio. I understand that because that's kind of
股份直接分散投資。就像你把相同金額的股票投入分散的投資組合。我理解，因為那就是
what I do now anyways is that when I have my stock, I have to sell it and then reinvest it my on my on my own. But
我現在做的事，有股票時，我必須賣掉然後自己重新投資。但
you have to sell it. So, one, you have to pay pay those taxes, and two, if those are short short-term gains, you have to pay like pretty high taxes,
你必須賣掉。所以，一，你要付那些稅，二，如果是短期收益，你要付相當高的稅，
correct? As opposed to like, you know, if you held them for longer for long-term gains. So, this allows you to kind of like circumvent that. So, like I
對吧？相對於，你知道，如果你持有更長時間的長期收益。所以，這讓你可以繞過那個。所以，我
was asking him, I was like, "Is this like a new invention? Like, how come I've never heard of it?" He's like, "No, it's not new." So, learn from my
問他「這是新發明嗎？我怎麼從沒聽過？」他說「不，不是新的。」所以，從我的
mistakes, my friends. My costly costly mistakes. learn from our mistakes. My Nvidia friends who have over $5 million in stock and concentrated stock is more is more common than you think. So, okay.
錯誤中學習，朋友們。我代價高昂的錯誤。從我們的錯誤中學習。我的 Nvidia 朋友們，有超過 500 萬美元集中持股的，比你想的更常見。所以，好。
So, that one has sort of like a cost minimum to it or like a you know a floor of investment. The second method which is called zerocost collars is it sounds
那一個有成本最低限制或投資門檻。第二種方法叫零成本領口策略，聽起來
a little bit complicated but actually most people can do it as a retail investor um as long as you have the ability to buy options um which most
有點複雜，但大多數人作為散戶投資者都可以做，只要你能買期權，而大多數
people do like even in your retail account. The idea behind that is that you buy a put option and you sell a call option. And what that does is it limits
人都可以，即使在你的散戶帳戶。背後的概念是你買一個看跌期權，賣一個看漲期權。這會限制
your downside for your your stock that you have like a lot of uh concentration in, but it also caps your upside. But importantly, it limits your downside.
你持有大量集中股票的下行風險，但也限制了上行空間。但重要的是，它限制了你的下行風險。
And the reason it's called a zerocost collar is that profit that you get from selling the call covers the cost of buying the put. So, this seems like
它叫零成本領口策略的原因是，賣看漲期權的利潤抵消了買看跌期權的成本。所以，這看起來
pretty advanced, like you have to be a bit more in the weeds and know what you're doing, which is why this is in the maybe ultra advanced category. Yeah.
相當進階，你要更深入了解並知道自己在做什麼，這就是為什麼這在超進階類別。是啊。
So, this is really good information for people who are like not afraid of their personal finances, want to take a more involved approach and also that involves Googling and learning more. Or if you
所以，這對那些不害怕個人理財、想採取更積極方法的人來說是很好的資訊，這包括 Google 搜尋和學習更多。或者如果你
have a financial advisor who you can bring this up to and be like, hey, can we do this? Like we always say, information is power, right? These are
有財務顧問，你可以提出來說「嘿，我們能做這個嗎？」我們總是說，資訊就是力量，對吧？這些是
things that I wish I had known so badly like let's say five, six years ago. Um cuz then I would have done a much better job of my own concentrated portfolio situation.
我超希望五六年前就知道的事。因為那樣我會更好地處理我自己的集中投資組合情況。
Um, but you live and you learn and this is the lesson that I have learned that in the future we will apply for whatever situation that we're in and that we can
但你活著你學習，這是我學到的教訓，未來我們會應用到任何情況，也可以
share with you guys. And finally, just to wrap up this episode, reminder, we are not financial adviserss. These are just interesting concepts that some of we've applied to our own lives and some
和你們分享。最後，總結這一集，提醒一下，我們不是財務顧問。這些只是有趣的概念，有些我們應用到自己的生活，有些
that we wish we've applied. I did pass the series 7 and the series, but I have not and I would like to not be sued for this episode. So, okay. Also, mine was
我們希望應用過。我確實通過了 series 7 和 series，但我沒有，而且我不想因為這一集被起訴。所以，好。而且，我的是
like 15 years ago, so it doesn't I'm not qualified anymore. So, we are not financial advisor advisors. Please Google everything to, you know, make your own decisions. This is big sister
大約 15 年前的，所以已經不算數了。我不再有資格。所以，我們不是財務顧問。請 Google 一切，自己做決定。這是大姐
advice for you guys. Big sister advice. Okay. So, the key takeaway from this episode is that you don't need to come from money to build wealth, but you do need knowledge, discipline, and to
給你們的建議。大姐建議。好。所以，這一集的關鍵要點是，你不需要出身富有才能積累財富，但你需要知識、紀律，並
understand the trade-offs. And also just a reminder, money doesn't buy happiness, but it can buy freedom and peace of mind. And so if you are interested in buying Rit Sethy's book, we're going to
理解權衡。還有提醒，錢買不到幸福，但可以買到自由和心靈的平靜。如果你有興趣買 Ramit Sethi 的書，我們會
link it in our Amazon storefront, which is connected. You can find it in the description of this video. And I do want to, you know, give a quick plug,
在我們的 Amazon 店面放連結，它是相連的。你可以在這個影片的說明中找到。我想，你知道，快速宣傳一下，
shameless plug. Gan and I have a matcha brand called Sisters Matcha. And while you're budgeting for your, you know, I can just spend money on things that make
不好意思的宣傳。Gan 和我有一個抹茶品牌叫 Sisters Matcha。當你在做預算，你知道，「我可以花錢在讓
me happy, you can also and healthy and healthy, you can purchase Sisters Matcha, which is available on our website, also energetic and also linked in the description of this video. So,
我開心的東西」，健康的，健康的，你可以買 Sisters Matcha，在我們的網站上有，也有活力的，連結也在這個影片的說明中。所以，
um, thank you guys so much for watching this episode. Hopefully, it was helpful for you. Please remember to like, comment, and subscribe, and share this episode with someone who would also find
非常感謝你們觀看這一集。希望對你有幫助。請記得按讚、留言和訂閱，把這集分享給也會覺得
it helpful. Yes, learn from our mistakes. Love you guys. Bye.
有幫助的人。是的，從我們的錯誤中學習。愛你們。拜拜。