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How does India look like from this space?
從太空看印度是什麼樣子？
>> Looking at India in the daytime, colors are amazing. The Himalayas are absolutely amazing. You can see uh when the rivers run off, how they interact.
白天看印度，色彩很驚人。喜馬拉雅山太壯觀了，你能看到河流如何奔流、如何交匯。
Night, India is pretty spectacular. The cities are lit up and all those lights seems to be like connected.
夜裡的印度也很壯觀，城市亮燈，那些光點彷彿連在一起。
Sita Williams and Buchil are still stuck in space and are not expected to return.
Sunita Williams 和 Butch Wilmore 仍滯留太空，歸期未定。
>> 10-day test flight turned into a 9-monl long mission in space.
十天的試飛變成了九個月的太空任務。
>> This after their Boeing Starlininer faced ruster failure.
此前他們的波音 Starliner 遭遇推進器故障。
>> This time, this flight, the last one, was pretty messed up.
這次、這班、最後這趟，搞得很糟。
>> Once after we launched and then we got to the space station, we knew we weren't going to come home as planned. We knew it would be six more months. When you're
發射後到了空間站，我們就知道不會按計劃回家，會再多待六個月。在太空裡、
in space and coming home is a byproduct of this business, it's risky.
回家是這行的副產品，本來就有風險。
>> >> How many situations do you plan for?
你們會預演多少種情境？
>> Oh gosh, hundreds. Trained for two years for a launch of a spacecraft cuz we go through with our control team. Hey, what if this failed? What if that failed? And
天啊，上百種。為一次發射訓練兩年，我們和地面控制一起演練：這個壞了怎麼辦、那個壞了怎麼辦、
what's the probability of this and that happening?
這種事發生的機率有多大？
>> Was there any point where you heard some sound and you got scared? We were all a little on edge when in this latest flight when we had a satellite below us
有沒有哪個瞬間你聽到什麼聲音然後嚇到了？這次任務裡我們下面有顆衛星
in orbit um explode and then there was a bit of a debris field and so we were woken up in the middle of the night to
在軌道上爆炸，出現一片碎片區，我們半夜被叫醒，
all go to our own spacecraft. It's called safe haven and we all sort of hugged each other. Hopefully I'll see you on Earth.
各自進自己的飛船，叫「安全避難」。大家互相擁抱，希望地球見。
>> Did you feel lonely in one of those 286 days?
那 286 天裡你有沒有感到孤單？
>> People that you end up living in space they become family.
在太空一起生活的人會變成家人。
>> Have you cried in space? Oh, absolutely.
你在太空哭過嗎？——哭過，當然。
Absolutely. I miss people and I miss my dog, so of course I cried.
當然。我想念大家、想我的狗，所以當然哭過。
>> What was the most difficult part for you of the training?
訓練對你來說最難的是哪部分？
>> Like if I have to just go do something, it doesn't bother me. I've trained. I've done it. Like spacew walk stuff, robotic stuff doesn't make me nervous. But
要是直接去做某件事，我不會慌，我練過、做過。太空行走、機械臂那些不會讓我緊張。但
academics in college were hard for me.
大學的學業對我來說很難。
>> Before you set a foot on your first flight, you saw what happened with Kalpn Chavla. She's a friend of yours. She's a role model. and you saw her death.
在你第一次飛行之前，你目睹了 Kalpana Chawla 的遭遇。她是你的朋友、榜樣，你目睹了她的離世。
>> This day has brought terrible news and great sadness to our country that Colombia is lost. There are no survivors.
今天傳來噩耗，哥倫比亞號失事，我國陷入巨大悲痛，無人生還。
>> Did that event change anything you? I think the desire to explore more. I think it g gave us even more of a feeling of like we really want to
那件事有改變你什麼嗎？我想是更想探索。那讓我們更強烈地覺得我們真的想
continue this. We've got to do this in their memory. We're not going to let their situation put a stop on it. They wouldn't want that. So, we're going to
繼續下去，要為了紀念他們而做，不會讓他們的遭遇叫停這一切，他們也不希望那樣。所以我們要
What's the health cost you pay when you come back?
回來後健康上你付出了什麼代價？
>> For me, I always feel a little nauseous when I come back. The neurovvestibular system has not been working while you're up in space. It's sort of shut down and
我回來後總是有點噁心。在太空時前庭系統沒在運作，有點關閉了，
you have other feelings of orientation while you're up there. For me, I felt pretty nauseous for like 24 hours.
在太空時你有另一套方位感。我大概噁心了二十四小時左右。
>> Do you believe there's some life out there?
你相信外面有生命嗎？
>> Absolutely. With those billions of stars out there, we're just a little planet around one star.
當然。外面幾十億顆恆星，我們只是其中一顆旁邊的小行星。
So yeah, there's life out there.
所以對，外面有生命。
>> How does space smell like? Tell me about your biggest insecurity. What's the strangest thing you've seen in the space which you think is going to be hard to
太空聞起來像什麼？說說你最大的不安全感。你在太空見過最怪、覺得一般人很難
believe for people here?
相信的是什麼？
>> Interesting. Um uh before starting today's episode, I have a small request. The whole team and I are working very hard to bring bigger and bigger guests for you so that we can
開始今天這集之前我有個小請求。團隊和我都很努力請到越來越大咖的來賓，好讓大家
give you more value and learnings through better conversations. And to continue doing that, I need you to subscribe our channel. It's free and takes only 2 seconds. And we promise
從更好的對談裡得到更多價值和收穫。要持續這樣做，需要大家訂閱我們的頻道，免費、只要兩秒。我們承諾
that if you do this, we'll keep bringing the top 1% guests from all around the world and make you prouder one day. Our today's guest has done nine spacew
大家訂閱的話，我們會持續請來全球頂尖 1% 的來賓，讓大家有一天以我們為榮。今天的來賓做過九次太空
walks, spent more than 62 hours walking in space, more than any other women in human history. Very few women get to lead the International Space Station.
行走，在太空行走超過六十二小時，比人類史上任何女性都多。很少有女性能領導國際空間站。
And she's not just commanded the ISS once, but twice. She has been part of three epic ISS missions, spent 608 days in space, the second most of any NASA
她不僅指揮過國際空間站一次，而是兩次。她參與過三次史詩級 ISS 任務，在太空待了六百零八天，在 NASA
astronaut ever. I'm talking about Sunita Williams, the woman who's flown 40 different aircraft, served as a Navy captain, and is also the first human being ever to have run a marathon in
太空人裡排第二。我說的是 Sunita Williams，開過四十種不同飛機、當過海軍上校，也是史上第一個在
space. And just last year, she was stranded in space for 9 months when a spacecraft failed. The whole world washed, but she didn't panic. She took
太空跑完馬拉鬆的人。去年她因飛船故障在太空滯留九個月，全世界都在看，她沒有慌，她扛起
the charge. And in this conversation, we'll figure out the training, the mindset, the sacrifices it took to become one of the greatest female astronauts in the world. And what does
責任。在這場對談裡我們會聊訓練、心態、要成為世上最偉大女太空人之一所付出的犧牲，以及怎樣
it take to build a mindset where you can be calm when everything is going against you?
才能練出在一切對你不利時仍能冷靜的心態？
I'm just really, really honored to do this. I just wanted you to know this.
能做這場訪問我真的很榮幸，想讓你知道。
>> Well, thank you. It's fun. It's great to be here. It's great to have a podcast. I know it opens up to another audience.
謝謝。很開心能來，能有播客很好，能接觸另一批觀眾。
So, thank you for the invitation.
謝謝邀請。
>> Everybody knows you, but let's say if 0.01% people don't know you, >> okay, >> then what about your childhood you would tell them which has shaped you the
大家都認識你，但假設有 0.01% 的人不認識，你會跟他們說哪些童年經歷塑造了
person who you are today? Uh I think the biggest thing about my childhood that shaped me was I came from a family that was multicultural, multi- religions, um
今天的你？我覺得童年對我影響最大的是我來自一個多元文化、多宗教、
multi food, most important I guess. And uh and that's a really it's a big benefit. I didn't you know you don't realize it when you're a kid, you know, it's just
多種飲食的家庭，飲食大概最重要。那是很大的優勢，小時候你不會意識到，就是
it's life. It's how it is. Um but I think uh just appreciation for different cultures at a young age not even realizing it I think was really
生活、就是那樣。但我覺得從小就欣賞不同文化、甚至沒意識到自己在欣賞，真的
beneficial and set me up um for success I would say just because I I feel like I can um relate to a lot of different
很有幫助，為我後來的成功打基礎，因為我覺得自己能
people or at least have the patience to listen for a moment.
和很多不同的人連結，至少能耐心聽一下。
>> At what point in your childhood you felt like this is a strength like m being multicultural is a strength now? Oh gosh. I don't think I realized it for a
你童年什麼時候開始覺得多元文化是一種優勢？天啊，我很久以後才意識到，
long time for a while. Like it it was a little bit I think more so um we were different. We are a different family and we all knew that but I don't
有一段時間反而覺得我們不一樣，我們家就是不同，大家心裡都有數，但我不
know I didn't know if it was a strength until later on in life where um >> uh just easy to deal with people. I think that
知道那算不算優勢，是後來才發現，就是
>> what do you mean by different?
你說「不同」是什麼意思？
>> Uh well we were the only Indian family in our town.
我們鎮上只有我們一家印度人。
>> Or partially Indian family. So I think we stuck out pretty much. My sister and I had long hair, of course, long Indian hair while we were growing up. We were
算半印度家庭吧，所以很顯眼。我和妹妹留長髮，典型的印度長髮，我們還是
also swimmers and so we were the type that got up in the morning and swam before school coming into school with wet hair and so we were just different
遊泳的，早上起床先遊泳再去上學，頂著濕髮進教室，所以我們就是和鎮上
in regards to other people in the town.
其他人不一樣。
I think people knew who we were then too. The pandas.
大家那時也知道我們是誰，Pandas 一家。
>> Did you at any point feel like that was maybe a weakness or that maybe put you in a different light than other people?
你有沒有哪個時候覺得那是弱點、或讓別人用不同眼光看你？
>> Oh, sure. like as a kid, you know, of course when you're like a a a kid or more so like when you're an early teed,
當然有。小時候嘛，尤其是青少年早期，
you're you're when you don't blend in with everybody else and you're a little bit different. Of course, that's a little bit uncomfortable. Um but it also
當你和大家融不進去、有點不一樣，當然會有點不自在。但同時
at the same time I was I think confident, secure in myself that I, you know, I thought the more important thing was athletics and academics and I didn't
我對自己還是有信心、有安全感，覺得更重要的是體育和學業，所以
really didn't really bother me that much. Were you insecure at any point?
其實沒那麼困擾我。你有沒有哪個階段很沒安全感？
>> Absolutely. My whole life I think every and I think everybody is. They just have to sort of push through it and I think that's part of part of life is just like
有，一輩子都有，我想每個人都是。就是要硬著頭皮撐過去，我覺得那也是人生的一部分，
pushing through boundaries and things that make you feel a little uncomfortable and that's the way you can achieve more. So yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
突破那些讓你不舒服的界限，才能走得更遠。對，一定有。
>> Tell me about your biggest insecurity.
說說你最大的不安全感。
>> Uh ah gosh, my biggest I don't know about my biggest. I mean just I my whole job uh from being um you know like first of all as a athlete as a you
呃，最大的……我不確定最大的。我是說我的工作從當運動員開始，
know you get on the starting blocks you're nervous right so that's one thing you're a little bit insecure about your capabilities and your abilities uh gets
你站上起跑臺就會緊張，所以對自己的能力和表現會有點沒把握，在泳池或跑道或哪裡
proven in the pool or on the track or wherever it is um but you know just getting to that starting point as they say is is a little bit scary um and then
會見真章，但就像大家說的，光站到起跑點就有點可怕，然後
just I think in all of the things that I in my career that I've done I had major insecurities about it. Like, wow, am I
我職業生涯做過的每件事我都有很大的不安全感。像是：我
am I going to be able to pass this check ride? Am I going to be able to be a pilot? Am I going to be able to know how
能不能通過這次考核？能不能當飛行員？能不能學會
to do a spacew walk? Am I going to be able to do the robotic arm? I think all those all those things. I think there's
做太空行走？能不能操作機械臂？這些我都會想，我覺得都有
points of insecurity. Yes, you prepare as best as you can, but then at this at one point in time, at least myself, I doubt myself at times. Um, you know,
不安全的時刻。你盡力準備，但總有某個時刻、至少我自己，會懷疑自己。
like >> do you do that today?
你現在還會這樣嗎？
>> Absolutely. I think we all do it. I think we all do that. Like if you don't then you're not really being introspective. I think
會。我想大家都會。不這樣的話其實不算在反省。
>> I think it's hard to think that you know everything and not have an appreciation for uh the rest of the world around you that might have a surprise for you.
很難想像自己什麼都懂、卻不欣賞週圍世界可能帶給你的驚喜。
>> What are you insecure about today? Like you've accomplished so many things now.
你現在還對什麼沒安全感？你已經成就這麼多了。
>> Um a a lot. I mean the next steps of my life. What am I going to do in the next steps of my life? I, you know, I want
很多。我是說人生的下一步。接下來要做什麼？我想
to, we're moved. I'm retired. We've moved. Uh, what am I going to do? I don't know. And I mean, think I'm insecure about it, but I don't really
我們搬了家，我退休了、我們搬了。接下來要做什麼？我不知道。我會沒把握，但其實不
care cuz it's going to be it's all I know better now. It's all going to work out. I wish I had known that when I was
太在意，因為現在我懂了，最後都會有辦法的。真希望小時候就懂
a kid. Uh, you know, cuz I think those insecurities take over a little bit more when you're younger when you don't realize it's all going to work out.
因為年輕時那些不安全感會更佔上風，那時你還不知道最後都會有辦法。
>> You know, it's so fascinating.
這真的很吸引人。
You do like your main work is uncertaintity for living. Like that's what like you don't know what's going to happen the next moment and you're you
你的工作本質上就是活在 uncertainty 裡，下一刻會發生什麼你不知道，你
think about what's going to happen next.
在想接下來會發生什麼。
That's like you're insecure about the uncertaintity in your life like what's going to happen now but you've lived all your life just thinking about let's live
你對人生裡的不確定沒安全感——接下來會怎樣——但你一輩子都在想：活在
in the moment and not think about what's going to happen next.
當下，別想接下來會發生什麼。
>> Uh yes and I think you you bring up a good point. Let's I think that is the way you deal with it. Like let's live in
對，你提到一個好點。我覺得那就是應對方式，活在
the moment. Like I think people have insecurities of course when they look in the future and you but you can't you can't make it you can guide it but you
當下。大家望向未來時當然會沒安全感，但你沒辦法、沒辦法掌控，可以引導但
can't uh anticipate every little thing.
無法預見每一件小事。
So living in the in the moment is I think the best methodology.
所以活在當下我覺得是最好的方法。
>> You know you say a lot about that u you've made a pivot every time things don't work out you made a pivot.
你常說每次事情不順你就轉向。
>> So you wanted to become something else in the childhood then you applied for certain things you didn't get in and then you finally ended up becoming who
你小時候想成為別的樣子，申請一些東西沒上，最後才變成
you are today. How did you know that >> this is something that you don't want to give up? because everything every time when it didn't work out, you just
今天的你。你怎麼知道「這是我不想放棄的」？因為每次不順你就轉向，像是「不適合我、不適合我、不適合我」，然後
pivoted. You're like, "Maybe not for me, not for me, not for me." And then, >> well, I I I like this is another thing I
嗯，這又是另一件我希望小時候就懂的事：事情發生都有原因。也許你在某方面比另一方面更適合，
think I wish I knew when I was a younger kid that, you know, things work out for a reason. Um, maybe it's because you have better qualifications in one area
雖然你以為自己想走這條路。要準備好迎接那些你從未預期的門打開。所以這些
than another, although you think this is what you might want to do. um and be ready for those extra doors to open that you didn't even anticipate. So those are
是我說希望當時就懂的，因為那時我會更期待、也許更緊張
things that I like I said I wish I had known then because I think I was a little bit more had more anticipation maybe a little bit more nervousness
年輕時會這樣，而不是順其自然——就看看下一扇門後面是什麼，可能是
about it when I was younger versus just like sort of going with the flow because like let's just see what's behind the next door cuz it might be something that
我從未想過的東西。所以我和年輕人聊時會提到這點，關於轉向、關於在
I never even imagined and things like that. So that's why I mention this when I'm talking to kids about this this younger age pivot about trying to know
那個年紀就想搞清楚自己要做什麼——現在回想幾乎荒謬，我發現自己
what you want to do when you're 17 that seems almost ridiculous now that I look back and think about it and I ask and I
也會問孩子：你長大想做什麼？長大想做什麼？他們
find myself asking kids too like what do you want to be when you grow up? What do you want to do when you grow up? How the
怎麼可能知道？問這種問題有點傻。更該問的是：你對什麼有興趣？你
heck do they know? It's sort of a silly question to ask them. So more should more should be like what do you what are you interested in? um what what what
接觸過哪些事？想不想試試別的？我能不能幫你
kinds of things have you been exposed to or what what do you do you want to do something else or can I uh guide you to
往一個你從未想過的方向走？我覺得這些才是更合適的問題，現在回頭看
a direction that might be something that you never even thought of you know that's I think more appropriate questions honestly now that I look back
整個過程，因為你小時候怎麼可能知道長大要做什麼？我覺得那
at the whole thing because how the heck do you know what you want to do when you're a kid and you and I think that
給很多人帶來焦慮和壓力，其實不必。什麼讓你對太空、對 NASA、對你現在做的事產生興趣？我
causes a lot of anxiety and stress with people and you don't need to have that >> true what got you interested in this in space in NASA in the things that you I
不是一路直達的。小時候我想做的不是這個。就算當飛行員時，我
wasn't really a straight shot. So, it wasn't what I wanted to do when I was a kid. Um, even when I was a pilot, I
一開始也不是開直升機，那不是我的首選。是後來才接觸到。所以我才說，如果我跟一個孩子聊，
really wasn't a helicopter pilot. It wasn't the first thing on my list. It wasn't until later that I got exposed to it. So, that's why I say like when I was
怎麼讓你也接觸點別的——比如看看太空計畫、
just mentioning like for if I'm talking to a kid like how can I expose you to something else like like um just take a look at you know the spa space program,
看看航空，那是我的背景。看看潛水，或介紹他們認識做過
take a look at aviation those are my backgrounds, right? take a look at diving or you know expose them to some other person adult that has done
不同事情的大人，讓他們知道世上還有哪些可能。總之直到我遇到去過太空、去過
something different um just so they get an idea of things that are out there. Um anyway, it wasn't until I met somebody who had gone to space, had gone to
Johnson 太空中心的人，我才想：哇，這工作看起來很有趣。其中有些是我當試飛員時就認識的朋友，
Johnson Space Center, and then I was like, "Wow, this job looks like fun." And some of those people were my friends um that I had known as a test pilot. So
我也信得過他們的看法。所以多認識在你可能喜歡的領域工作的人是個好主意。像我就
I trusted their opinion also. Uh so getting to know more and more people um who are in the jobs that potentially you might like is a good idea. So like if I
除了帶狗看獸醫之外沒真的跟獸醫聊過，也許我該去獸醫那邊
I had not really talked to a veterinarian beside for when I went to the vet with my dog. So probably I should have done like some
實習一下看看自己喜不喜歡，但我沒做。
type of internship somewhere with a veterinarian to find out if I really like that but I hadn't didn't do that.
也許該去某個獸醫那裡實習看看自己喜不喜歡，但我沒做。
>> True. So but let's say you got interested in it but before you enter I'm assuming like before you enter a rocket they would test you in some way
對。但假設你產生了興趣，在進火箭之前，我猜他們會用某種方式測試你對吧？
right maybe mentally physically there would be some kind of training going on.
對吧，心理上、身體上，會有某種訓練在進行。
點擊句子跳轉到對應位置
How does India look like from this space?
從太空看印度是什麼樣子？
>> Looking at India in the daytime, colors are amazing. The Himalayas are absolutely amazing. You can see uh when the rivers run off, how they interact.
白天看印度，色彩很驚人。喜馬拉雅山太壯觀了，你能看到河流如何奔流、如何交匯。
Night, India is pretty spectacular. The cities are lit up and all those lights seems to be like connected.
夜裡的印度也很壯觀，城市亮燈，那些光點彷彿連在一起。
Sita Williams and Buchil are still stuck in space and are not expected to return.
Sunita Williams 和 Butch Wilmore 仍滯留太空，歸期未定。
>> 10-day test flight turned into a 9-monl long mission in space.
十天的試飛變成了九個月的太空任務。
>> This after their Boeing Starlininer faced ruster failure.
此前他們的波音 Starliner 遭遇推進器故障。
>> This time, this flight, the last one, was pretty messed up.
這次、這班、最後這趟，搞得很糟。
>> Once after we launched and then we got to the space station, we knew we weren't going to come home as planned. We knew it would be six more months. When you're
發射後到了空間站，我們就知道不會按計劃回家，會再多待六個月。在太空裡、
in space and coming home is a byproduct of this business, it's risky.
回家是這行的副產品，本來就有風險。
>> >> How many situations do you plan for?
你們會預演多少種情境？
>> Oh gosh, hundreds. Trained for two years for a launch of a spacecraft cuz we go through with our control team. Hey, what if this failed? What if that failed? And
天啊，上百種。為一次發射訓練兩年，我們和地面控制一起演練：這個壞了怎麼辦、那個壞了怎麼辦、
what's the probability of this and that happening?
這種事發生的機率有多大？
>> Was there any point where you heard some sound and you got scared? We were all a little on edge when in this latest flight when we had a satellite below us
有沒有哪個瞬間你聽到什麼聲音然後嚇到了？這次任務裡我們下面有顆衛星
in orbit um explode and then there was a bit of a debris field and so we were woken up in the middle of the night to
在軌道上爆炸，出現一片碎片區，我們半夜被叫醒，
all go to our own spacecraft. It's called safe haven and we all sort of hugged each other. Hopefully I'll see you on Earth.
各自進自己的飛船，叫「安全避難」。大家互相擁抱，希望地球見。
>> Did you feel lonely in one of those 286 days?
那 286 天裡你有沒有感到孤單？
>> People that you end up living in space they become family.
在太空一起生活的人會變成家人。
>> Have you cried in space? Oh, absolutely.
你在太空哭過嗎？——哭過，當然。
Absolutely. I miss people and I miss my dog, so of course I cried.
當然。我想念大家、想我的狗，所以當然哭過。
>> What was the most difficult part for you of the training?
訓練對你來說最難的是哪部分？
>> Like if I have to just go do something, it doesn't bother me. I've trained. I've done it. Like spacew walk stuff, robotic stuff doesn't make me nervous. But
要是直接去做某件事，我不會慌，我練過、做過。太空行走、機械臂那些不會讓我緊張。但
academics in college were hard for me.
大學的學業對我來說很難。
>> Before you set a foot on your first flight, you saw what happened with Kalpn Chavla. She's a friend of yours. She's a role model. and you saw her death.
在你第一次飛行之前，你目睹了 Kalpana Chawla 的遭遇。她是你的朋友、榜樣，你目睹了她的離世。
>> This day has brought terrible news and great sadness to our country that Colombia is lost. There are no survivors.
今天傳來噩耗，哥倫比亞號失事，我國陷入巨大悲痛，無人生還。
>> Did that event change anything you? I think the desire to explore more. I think it g gave us even more of a feeling of like we really want to
那件事有改變你什麼嗎？我想是更想探索。那讓我們更強烈地覺得我們真的想
continue this. We've got to do this in their memory. We're not going to let their situation put a stop on it. They wouldn't want that. So, we're going to
繼續下去，要為了紀念他們而做，不會讓他們的遭遇叫停這一切，他們也不希望那樣。所以我們要
What's the health cost you pay when you come back?
回來後健康上你付出了什麼代價？
>> For me, I always feel a little nauseous when I come back. The neurovvestibular system has not been working while you're up in space. It's sort of shut down and
我回來後總是有點噁心。在太空時前庭系統沒在運作，有點關閉了，
you have other feelings of orientation while you're up there. For me, I felt pretty nauseous for like 24 hours.
在太空時你有另一套方位感。我大概噁心了二十四小時左右。
>> Do you believe there's some life out there?
你相信外面有生命嗎？
>> Absolutely. With those billions of stars out there, we're just a little planet around one star.
當然。外面幾十億顆恆星，我們只是其中一顆旁邊的小行星。
So yeah, there's life out there.
所以對，外面有生命。
>> How does space smell like? Tell me about your biggest insecurity. What's the strangest thing you've seen in the space which you think is going to be hard to
太空聞起來像什麼？說說你最大的不安全感。你在太空見過最怪、覺得一般人很難
believe for people here?
相信的是什麼？
>> Interesting. Um uh before starting today's episode, I have a small request. The whole team and I are working very hard to bring bigger and bigger guests for you so that we can
開始今天這集之前我有個小請求。團隊和我都很努力請到越來越大咖的來賓，好讓大家
give you more value and learnings through better conversations. And to continue doing that, I need you to subscribe our channel. It's free and takes only 2 seconds. And we promise
從更好的對談裡得到更多價值和收穫。要持續這樣做，需要大家訂閱我們的頻道，免費、只要兩秒。我們承諾
that if you do this, we'll keep bringing the top 1% guests from all around the world and make you prouder one day. Our today's guest has done nine spacew
大家訂閱的話，我們會持續請來全球頂尖 1% 的來賓，讓大家有一天以我們為榮。今天的來賓做過九次太空
walks, spent more than 62 hours walking in space, more than any other women in human history. Very few women get to lead the International Space Station.
行走，在太空行走超過六十二小時，比人類史上任何女性都多。很少有女性能領導國際空間站。
And she's not just commanded the ISS once, but twice. She has been part of three epic ISS missions, spent 608 days in space, the second most of any NASA
她不僅指揮過國際空間站一次，而是兩次。她參與過三次史詩級 ISS 任務，在太空待了六百零八天，在 NASA
astronaut ever. I'm talking about Sunita Williams, the woman who's flown 40 different aircraft, served as a Navy captain, and is also the first human being ever to have run a marathon in
太空人裡排第二。我說的是 Sunita Williams，開過四十種不同飛機、當過海軍上校，也是史上第一個在
space. And just last year, she was stranded in space for 9 months when a spacecraft failed. The whole world washed, but she didn't panic. She took
太空跑完馬拉鬆的人。去年她因飛船故障在太空滯留九個月，全世界都在看，她沒有慌，她扛起
the charge. And in this conversation, we'll figure out the training, the mindset, the sacrifices it took to become one of the greatest female astronauts in the world. And what does
責任。在這場對談裡我們會聊訓練、心態、要成為世上最偉大女太空人之一所付出的犧牲，以及怎樣
it take to build a mindset where you can be calm when everything is going against you?
才能練出在一切對你不利時仍能冷靜的心態？
I'm just really, really honored to do this. I just wanted you to know this.
能做這場訪問我真的很榮幸，想讓你知道。
>> Well, thank you. It's fun. It's great to be here. It's great to have a podcast. I know it opens up to another audience.
謝謝。很開心能來，能有播客很好，能接觸另一批觀眾。
So, thank you for the invitation.
謝謝邀請。
>> Everybody knows you, but let's say if 0.01% people don't know you, >> okay, >> then what about your childhood you would tell them which has shaped you the
大家都認識你，但假設有 0.01% 的人不認識，你會跟他們說哪些童年經歷塑造了
person who you are today? Uh I think the biggest thing about my childhood that shaped me was I came from a family that was multicultural, multi- religions, um
今天的你？我覺得童年對我影響最大的是我來自一個多元文化、多宗教、
multi food, most important I guess. And uh and that's a really it's a big benefit. I didn't you know you don't realize it when you're a kid, you know, it's just
多種飲食的家庭，飲食大概最重要。那是很大的優勢，小時候你不會意識到，就是
it's life. It's how it is. Um but I think uh just appreciation for different cultures at a young age not even realizing it I think was really
生活、就是那樣。但我覺得從小就欣賞不同文化、甚至沒意識到自己在欣賞，真的
beneficial and set me up um for success I would say just because I I feel like I can um relate to a lot of different
很有幫助，為我後來的成功打基礎，因為我覺得自己能
people or at least have the patience to listen for a moment.
和很多不同的人連結，至少能耐心聽一下。
>> At what point in your childhood you felt like this is a strength like m being multicultural is a strength now? Oh gosh. I don't think I realized it for a
你童年什麼時候開始覺得多元文化是一種優勢？天啊，我很久以後才意識到，
long time for a while. Like it it was a little bit I think more so um we were different. We are a different family and we all knew that but I don't
有一段時間反而覺得我們不一樣，我們家就是不同，大家心裡都有數，但我不
know I didn't know if it was a strength until later on in life where um >> uh just easy to deal with people. I think that
知道那算不算優勢，是後來才發現，就是
>> what do you mean by different?
你說「不同」是什麼意思？
>> Uh well we were the only Indian family in our town.
我們鎮上只有我們一家印度人。
>> Or partially Indian family. So I think we stuck out pretty much. My sister and I had long hair, of course, long Indian hair while we were growing up. We were
算半印度家庭吧，所以很顯眼。我和妹妹留長髮，典型的印度長髮，我們還是
also swimmers and so we were the type that got up in the morning and swam before school coming into school with wet hair and so we were just different
遊泳的，早上起床先遊泳再去上學，頂著濕髮進教室，所以我們就是和鎮上
in regards to other people in the town.
其他人不一樣。
I think people knew who we were then too. The pandas.
大家那時也知道我們是誰，Pandas 一家。
>> Did you at any point feel like that was maybe a weakness or that maybe put you in a different light than other people?
你有沒有哪個時候覺得那是弱點、或讓別人用不同眼光看你？
>> Oh, sure. like as a kid, you know, of course when you're like a a a kid or more so like when you're an early teed,
當然有。小時候嘛，尤其是青少年早期，
you're you're when you don't blend in with everybody else and you're a little bit different. Of course, that's a little bit uncomfortable. Um but it also
當你和大家融不進去、有點不一樣，當然會有點不自在。但同時
at the same time I was I think confident, secure in myself that I, you know, I thought the more important thing was athletics and academics and I didn't
我對自己還是有信心、有安全感，覺得更重要的是體育和學業，所以
really didn't really bother me that much. Were you insecure at any point?
其實沒那麼困擾我。你有沒有哪個階段很沒安全感？
>> Absolutely. My whole life I think every and I think everybody is. They just have to sort of push through it and I think that's part of part of life is just like
有，一輩子都有，我想每個人都是。就是要硬著頭皮撐過去，我覺得那也是人生的一部分，
pushing through boundaries and things that make you feel a little uncomfortable and that's the way you can achieve more. So yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
突破那些讓你不舒服的界限，才能走得更遠。對，一定有。
>> Tell me about your biggest insecurity.
說說你最大的不安全感。
>> Uh ah gosh, my biggest I don't know about my biggest. I mean just I my whole job uh from being um you know like first of all as a athlete as a you
呃，最大的……我不確定最大的。我是說我的工作從當運動員開始，
know you get on the starting blocks you're nervous right so that's one thing you're a little bit insecure about your capabilities and your abilities uh gets
你站上起跑臺就會緊張，所以對自己的能力和表現會有點沒把握，在泳池或跑道或哪裡
proven in the pool or on the track or wherever it is um but you know just getting to that starting point as they say is is a little bit scary um and then
會見真章，但就像大家說的，光站到起跑點就有點可怕，然後
just I think in all of the things that I in my career that I've done I had major insecurities about it. Like, wow, am I
我職業生涯做過的每件事我都有很大的不安全感。像是：我
am I going to be able to pass this check ride? Am I going to be able to be a pilot? Am I going to be able to know how
能不能通過這次考核？能不能當飛行員？能不能學會
to do a spacew walk? Am I going to be able to do the robotic arm? I think all those all those things. I think there's
做太空行走？能不能操作機械臂？這些我都會想，我覺得都有
points of insecurity. Yes, you prepare as best as you can, but then at this at one point in time, at least myself, I doubt myself at times. Um, you know,
不安全的時刻。你盡力準備，但總有某個時刻、至少我自己，會懷疑自己。
like >> do you do that today?
你現在還會這樣嗎？
>> Absolutely. I think we all do it. I think we all do that. Like if you don't then you're not really being introspective. I think
會。我想大家都會。不這樣的話其實不算在反省。
>> I think it's hard to think that you know everything and not have an appreciation for uh the rest of the world around you that might have a surprise for you.
很難想像自己什麼都懂、卻不欣賞週圍世界可能帶給你的驚喜。
>> What are you insecure about today? Like you've accomplished so many things now.
你現在還對什麼沒安全感？你已經成就這麼多了。
>> Um a a lot. I mean the next steps of my life. What am I going to do in the next steps of my life? I, you know, I want
很多。我是說人生的下一步。接下來要做什麼？我想
to, we're moved. I'm retired. We've moved. Uh, what am I going to do? I don't know. And I mean, think I'm insecure about it, but I don't really
我們搬了家，我退休了、我們搬了。接下來要做什麼？我不知道。我會沒把握，但其實不
care cuz it's going to be it's all I know better now. It's all going to work out. I wish I had known that when I was
太在意，因為現在我懂了，最後都會有辦法的。真希望小時候就懂
a kid. Uh, you know, cuz I think those insecurities take over a little bit more when you're younger when you don't realize it's all going to work out.
因為年輕時那些不安全感會更佔上風，那時你還不知道最後都會有辦法。
>> You know, it's so fascinating.
這真的很吸引人。
You do like your main work is uncertaintity for living. Like that's what like you don't know what's going to happen the next moment and you're you
你的工作本質上就是活在 uncertainty 裡，下一刻會發生什麼你不知道，你
think about what's going to happen next.
在想接下來會發生什麼。
That's like you're insecure about the uncertaintity in your life like what's going to happen now but you've lived all your life just thinking about let's live
你對人生裡的不確定沒安全感——接下來會怎樣——但你一輩子都在想：活在
in the moment and not think about what's going to happen next.
當下，別想接下來會發生什麼。
>> Uh yes and I think you you bring up a good point. Let's I think that is the way you deal with it. Like let's live in
對，你提到一個好點。我覺得那就是應對方式，活在
the moment. Like I think people have insecurities of course when they look in the future and you but you can't you can't make it you can guide it but you
當下。大家望向未來時當然會沒安全感，但你沒辦法、沒辦法掌控，可以引導但
can't uh anticipate every little thing.
無法預見每一件小事。
So living in the in the moment is I think the best methodology.
所以活在當下我覺得是最好的方法。
>> You know you say a lot about that u you've made a pivot every time things don't work out you made a pivot.
你常說每次事情不順你就轉向。
>> So you wanted to become something else in the childhood then you applied for certain things you didn't get in and then you finally ended up becoming who
你小時候想成為別的樣子，申請一些東西沒上，最後才變成
you are today. How did you know that >> this is something that you don't want to give up? because everything every time when it didn't work out, you just
今天的你。你怎麼知道「這是我不想放棄的」？因為每次不順你就轉向，像是「不適合我、不適合我、不適合我」，然後
pivoted. You're like, "Maybe not for me, not for me, not for me." And then, >> well, I I I like this is another thing I
嗯，這又是另一件我希望小時候就懂的事：事情發生都有原因。也許你在某方面比另一方面更適合，
think I wish I knew when I was a younger kid that, you know, things work out for a reason. Um, maybe it's because you have better qualifications in one area
雖然你以為自己想走這條路。要準備好迎接那些你從未預期的門打開。所以這些
than another, although you think this is what you might want to do. um and be ready for those extra doors to open that you didn't even anticipate. So those are
是我說希望當時就懂的，因為那時我會更期待、也許更緊張
things that I like I said I wish I had known then because I think I was a little bit more had more anticipation maybe a little bit more nervousness
年輕時會這樣，而不是順其自然——就看看下一扇門後面是什麼，可能是
about it when I was younger versus just like sort of going with the flow because like let's just see what's behind the next door cuz it might be something that
我從未想過的東西。所以我和年輕人聊時會提到這點，關於轉向、關於在
I never even imagined and things like that. So that's why I mention this when I'm talking to kids about this this younger age pivot about trying to know
那個年紀就想搞清楚自己要做什麼——現在回想幾乎荒謬，我發現自己
what you want to do when you're 17 that seems almost ridiculous now that I look back and think about it and I ask and I
也會問孩子：你長大想做什麼？長大想做什麼？他們
find myself asking kids too like what do you want to be when you grow up? What do you want to do when you grow up? How the
怎麼可能知道？問這種問題有點傻。更該問的是：你對什麼有興趣？你
heck do they know? It's sort of a silly question to ask them. So more should more should be like what do you what are you interested in? um what what what
接觸過哪些事？想不想試試別的？我能不能幫你
kinds of things have you been exposed to or what what do you do you want to do something else or can I uh guide you to
往一個你從未想過的方向走？我覺得這些才是更合適的問題，現在回頭看
a direction that might be something that you never even thought of you know that's I think more appropriate questions honestly now that I look back
整個過程，因為你小時候怎麼可能知道長大要做什麼？我覺得那
at the whole thing because how the heck do you know what you want to do when you're a kid and you and I think that
給很多人帶來焦慮和壓力，其實不必。什麼讓你對太空、對 NASA、對你現在做的事產生興趣？我
causes a lot of anxiety and stress with people and you don't need to have that >> true what got you interested in this in space in NASA in the things that you I
不是一路直達的。小時候我想做的不是這個。就算當飛行員時，我
wasn't really a straight shot. So, it wasn't what I wanted to do when I was a kid. Um, even when I was a pilot, I
一開始也不是開直升機，那不是我的首選。是後來才接觸到。所以我才說，如果我跟一個孩子聊，
really wasn't a helicopter pilot. It wasn't the first thing on my list. It wasn't until later that I got exposed to it. So, that's why I say like when I was
怎麼讓你也接觸點別的——比如看看太空計畫、
just mentioning like for if I'm talking to a kid like how can I expose you to something else like like um just take a look at you know the spa space program,
看看航空，那是我的背景。看看潛水，或介紹他們認識做過
take a look at aviation those are my backgrounds, right? take a look at diving or you know expose them to some other person adult that has done
不同事情的大人，讓他們知道世上還有哪些可能。總之直到我遇到去過太空、去過
something different um just so they get an idea of things that are out there. Um anyway, it wasn't until I met somebody who had gone to space, had gone to
Johnson 太空中心的人，我才想：哇，這工作看起來很有趣。其中有些是我當試飛員時就認識的朋友，
Johnson Space Center, and then I was like, "Wow, this job looks like fun." And some of those people were my friends um that I had known as a test pilot. So
我也信得過他們的看法。所以多認識在你可能喜歡的領域工作的人是個好主意。像我就
I trusted their opinion also. Uh so getting to know more and more people um who are in the jobs that potentially you might like is a good idea. So like if I
除了帶狗看獸醫之外沒真的跟獸醫聊過，也許我該去獸醫那邊
I had not really talked to a veterinarian beside for when I went to the vet with my dog. So probably I should have done like some
實習一下看看自己喜不喜歡，但我沒做。
type of internship somewhere with a veterinarian to find out if I really like that but I hadn't didn't do that.
也許該去某個獸醫那裡實習看看自己喜不喜歡，但我沒做。
>> True. So but let's say you got interested in it but before you enter I'm assuming like before you enter a rocket they would test you in some way
對。但假設你產生了興趣，在進火箭之前，我猜他們會用某種方式測試你對吧？
right maybe mentally physically there would be some kind of training going on.
對吧，心理上、身體上，會有某種訓練在進行。